RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

correct, you just put the bind plugs in both receivers and bind like normal, and both rx's link to that particular model.. or so i'm told

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Or you can just bind them one at a time.

Doug.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Ok, fine,why but can't we bind 2 receivers with one radio without the PowerBox ?
(And we are talking about JR, but is it the same thing with Futaba ?)

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

You can. The problem isn't the binding, it's what you do with the output signals.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Ali,
I know its always a second guessing game when this happens but i have in the hundreds of flights on 4 jets with a single A123 pack and one HD switch running into a Spektrum AR9000 rx. Get rid of the nimh packs and convert to A123 batts and go from there.

Ron, you are really showing your sensitive side...he he [:@]

V..

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

OK, the powerbox is managing the dual output into one controled/failsafed output. I always thought that we can only bind one receiver to a RX.
That's nice... So powerbox might be a good thing to have, it's only the size of the device, we are already tight in our airframe...

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Ali, did the turbine shut down before impact then on failsafe?

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

sorry Ali, this bad news

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Vincent

Ali,
I know its always a second guessing game when this happens but i have in the hundreds of flights on 4 jets with a single A123 pack and one HD switch running into a Spektrum AR9000 rx. Get rid of the nimh packs and convert to A123 batts and go from there.

Ron, you are really showing your sensitive side...he he [:@]

V..
[/quot

And I thought that went by un noticed.:D


Ron

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

It happened so quickly and was a long way down wind that its hard to tell if the turbine shutdown or not.
I am going to go with Powerbox Royals 9 With the inbuilt twin RX's ) On all my jest from now on, powered by twin Lipo. A tough lesson learned!
Ron Long! Sensitive side?? Are you joking V :D
I will open up my RX tonight and have a look. I really hope its not that!
As for the twin RX thing... On all of my models over 20KG ( 44 lbs ) I have to use twin RX's ( Uk AMA/FAA Rules ) I have 4 models like this currently with no issues. I just bind one at a time, and its all good.
The C-17 Actually has 5 Spektrum RX's in one plane bound to the same RX
Ron... Strange way of asking. But now you are setting the Mig 21 up on Futaba. What are you doing with the MX-22 Radio?

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Hi Ali,

sorry to hear from your loss :(

But be honest with us, you just wanted to put some more pressure on your building bodys to get your bigger hunter on the start :D:D

Did you receive your Kit from HT-Modellbau already? Have you got any pics of that kit?

Cheers, Thomas

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

I no longer need it Al would you like it back? It is yours if you want it.


Ron

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

A single battery in a large gas turbine powered model, lord oh lord, hard to believe !!

All we need (not) is for this to happen at a public display, not even sure exposing such crashes on the internet is a good idea, does this branch of model aviation NO good at all.

Surely after all these years of gas turbine flying one thing we DO KNOW is that integrity of power supplies is of the greatest importance, meaning two batteries, no argument, but no doubt some will. (wonder why Weatronics and powerbox etc use twin batt inputs ?)

Nice to see that the new Weatronic Micro Receivers have two battery inputs.

Abuse my comments if you wish but at least do it at a technical level !!

Regards,

David Gladwin.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Hi Al, so sorry to hear about your loss mate, that model was sure one hellava crack on the eyeballs, we all live and learn and gain more experience, that's what the hobby's all about.

Regards,

Vince.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

That took longer than I was expecting.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

David.
how many Tx's do you use? I am guessing one right? In that one TX. How many single components are there that can fail? ( that have no redundancy)
Do you think the hunter had more load on its electrical system just because it was large? If so how do the smaller jets work into theory? They have the same amount of servos per control surface but are moving at twice or three times the speed?
Oh and what about the aerobatic models that have the same amount of similar servos but are moving control surfaces at huge deflection angles ( Normally within high prop draughts thus increases the loads)
No abuse there. Just some questions all at as technical a level as I would like to go for now. Oh and I have checked the battery under a 2 amp load and its come back well above a brown out voltage.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

While I am a HUGE fan of redundancy wherever you can get it (dual A123's, Smart-Fly EQ10, etc.), Ali has a good point. No matter how much we try, there will ALWAYS be a single point of failure somewhere in the circuit. While we can do our best to minimize the number of single failure points, we will never eliminate them.

And while no crash puts out a "good" image, they're all going to eventually. Except for the hangar queens, they will ALL crash.

Much like Ali's, I want my crashes to be away from people or property, but big and spectacular. And if they aren't big and spectacular, I will lie and say they were when I write about them here on RCU.

Which by the way, my Boomerang XL crash 2 years ago WAS big and spectacular......really it was!

It's going to happen, it isn't anyone's fault.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

The problem with Nimh batteries is that if placed under an abnormally high load (stuck servo, ETC) within a few minutes a 5 cell pack can drop to below 4 volts while only having consumed a few hundred milliamps of energy. This is due to the high internal resistance if the Nimh cell chemistry.

After the battery has sat for a little while, you can recheck the voltage and it will read normal again like nothing happened. I have seen this first hand before more than once or twice.

B

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Al

what power lead was on the Nimh?

jason

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Really guys its unbelievably simple. Our models are TOTALLY dependant on a secure power supply. Without it they are DEAD, period. We CAN so easily gurantee that power supply by fitting TWO batteries, at minimal cost in cash and weight. A big hole plugged, dead easy and cheap in the big picture . Risk of battery failure is X, with TWO batteries its X squared , virtually eliminated . Why do you guys think that two of everything (sometimes three, but they still have just ONE main spar !) are fitted to things like ETOPS airliners, why does my boat have 2 batteries ? Why does my car (all modern cars) have THREE brake systems, my aeroplane (when I had it) 2 ignition systems ?

May I suggest you read the manuals of the Weatronics DRs and the Powerbox systems if my logic about power supplies is dismissed. The designers of these system are no fools, far from it.

Sorry, Ali, my big models do have TWO receivers ( Weatronic) and TWO power supplies. I CANT guarantee totally systems redundancy as even with twin servos on a single surface a burned out servo will make that surface immovable. Even my small models will soon have Weatronic Dual receivers (micros) on 2.4

However, there are situations where total redundancy IS possible and the critical situation of vital power supplies is just such. Not filling THAT gap is, in my opinion, just dumb !

Just my opinion, of course, but based on 40 years of R/c modelling (back to RCS Guidance systems and Flight Link Proportional) and 40 plus years of operating real jets, but what would Boeing etc. know ?

Funny thing is that I have bought hundreds of servos over the years, with perhaps two failures, I have a whole box full of batteries that have deteriorated to the point of being unuseable as main power supply. Go figure, as our American friends would say !

Regards,

David.

PS and yes large models DO place a larger demand on electrical supplies. Large digital servos moving large surfaces against higher dynamic loads equals greater current draw, elementary physics !!

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

David,

You cannot guarantee a power supply won't fail by fitting 2 batteries but you can reduce the likelihood of failure. The ETOPS aircraft you talk about are not free from failure either as proved by the 777 with the double engine failure at Heathrow. The design of these aircraft is to an acceptable limit of failure.

If you think the Weatronics makes solves all your problems then you are wrong. Admittedly it does reduce the chances of failure but doesn't remove it completely. I have looked at the Powerbox RRS for twin receivers and that introduces numerous extra failure points too.

Each person chooses the level of risk that he is happy with and your direct patronising comments so soon after such a disastrous incident does you no favours.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

David,

I had an interesting incident a couple of weekends ago at a local jet meet. I had brought down my "basher" jet to fly and had the night before charged it's batteries (3). It's a little Velox and I am on Spektrum 2.4 powered by two 2 cell Li-ion batteries regulated through a Powerbox regulator/switch.

Anyway, I checked everything before the first flight and it was fine. After a few flights (5 minutes each, I was powering up for another one and I noticed one of the lights on the switch was not coming on anymore and the plane did not power up on the LH battery. I thought maybe it had a bad connection, so I unplugged it and then plugged it back in and it still did not work. I then saw the "clue light" flashing brightly in my face and I grabbed my voltage tester to check the battery.

The volts read 0. The battery, which had been at 8.3 an hour ago had commited suicide. I'm guessing it "died" during the last flight.

Thank God I was running a dual battery set up. While we can't "bullet proof" out jets, there are simply some things that for relative pennies compared to the overall cost of the project can make it much more reliable (safe).

Beave

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

Ok so you are calling me dumb? Funny David... how would you take that??
Just because once you have been an airline pilot with an RAF background you feel the god given right to come on RCU and cast your opinions on those that read these pages as gospel. Those that dont conform with your practices are wrong, dangerous and the risk of all of us losing this hobby due to their reckless behavior. I have read countless posts with input from you that read in the same high and mighty condescending manner, and feel that I need to get this off my chest. Its funny 15 years ago when I was 17 I spoke with you as a kid that had earnt a bit of money ( teaching people how to fly in his spare time) It was at the Goosedale flying field and I was interested in getting into turbines. The way you spoke to me and the condescending/ elitist manner in which you made me feel as if I would never be adequate enough to fly a turbine put me off getting into jets for some years after that. Funny how things stick in ones memoirs...
Remember this toy airplane flying in my livelihood. its what I do to earn a crust, so I doubt very much many people think about it more than I do. I think about crashes ( Especially those at major events ) More than others. The strange thing is that on all my travels around the world, some of the most dangerous flying incidents that I have ever seen have arisen from people flying model aircraft at what you might class as safe heights and distances. Using equipment that is to the highest of specs. The simple fact is that crashes happen. They have always happen and will always happen. Despite all of their hundreds or thousands of redundant and safe systems, even your beloved Boeing jets fall out the sky.
Now on on earth do you expect us to prevent our simple toy planes from hitting the ground.
I was going to say that I was sorry for writing this.. but I am not. Am I sorry that my plane crashed? Yes! Am I sorry that I didnt use a dual battery system? Yes! Do i think that a dual battery system would have saved my model?? I am really not sure. The battery in the model has tested as ok. it had flown the model on a number of occasions with no issues.

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

David,

You can say things without being so condesinding. as the AMERICANS WOULD SAY I have had various powerbox/smartfly power systems burn out due to a pinched servo wire. It did not matter how many batteries were hooked up I was dead in the water. or should I say sky :D However I do agree more is better I have had many jets with 1 batteries for surfaces 1 for ECU Hell most composit bandit arfs are like that. I do not think there is a shortage of those. I always love the throughn in I am a pilot or engineer like it really matters. Hell I have been driving cars for 27 years does that make me a expert No Nor will it make me a better RC car Driver. See the point so leave the profession out no one cares. Crashes are going to occure no matter what, lets just hope that we all can help each other to minimize the damage and hold a high level of safty. Not scold one another about what should have been done and what are qualifications are for saying it. Never showing the problem does not help anyone. By the way David My experience is based on 2 years of modeling experience. I know guys with 40 years experience that are yet to get a Jet off the ground there just not that good ( So leave your experience out as well) Some people are natural tallent some take 40 years to get it! I would say AlI is in the natural tallent colum and I am very confident that he did not put a unsafe jet up in the sky. Very simple equipment failer.


Ronald R Long

RE: Why does it always happen to the good ones??
 

40 years of R/c modelling, but how much jet airplane you build and fly it.
i am in 5 year build more than 40 jet airplane, that's you must say it for judge person like Ali.

Ali build another one with half battery, that's my opinion from my 1 million years of R/C modelling expert:D