RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Exactly, you beat me to the question. What is it that us "Joe Plumbers" need to do different?

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Bomb your vans....andy ducks head...lol I had to say it!

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

I think JPO offers the best advice on how we should handle ourselves in these situations. Lets trust the guys who are in the trenches trying to do the best they can for our interest.

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

After re-reading all the posts here, I had to wonder why some of the blasting on me, and this is what I concluded: You may feel that I am picking on the Jet Pilots but "We" will be the ones to go down first if something major would ever happen. It may even be something that "we" (the jet pilots) had nothing to do with. I feel that "IF" the FAA wanted to shut down a large part of the R/C aircraft it would most likely be "us". It could be something as simple as a foamy dude flying in the background knocking a jet pilot in the back of the head while flying a jet (this just happened whith David Searles because of some idiot not paying attention and this, in return caused David to crash a very expensive bird) This was NOT the Jet pilot's fault and some of you may see my point. The others that are NOT listening will coninue to argue for the sake of it. Thats fine with me but please understand my point.

I have done ALOT of stupid stuff including "bombing things" 150' past the runway that I should not have done, Flying too fast and too low over the centerline of the runway, flying over the pilots station, etc, etc. I am not claiming to be better than anyone here as I have done my share of stupid *****. I can assure you that I am working on becoming a more "responsible" pilot as I progress in my old age of 35. ;)


One of the MOST important things that "we" as Jet Pilots' CAN do is: Speak up louder than before! If you see something that isnt right then say something the moment you see it! MOST of the time this will occur at Club Fields with idiots flying foamies in your face while you may be standing in a pilots station happily flying your aircraft or a heli dude flying behind your back while your standing in a pilots station/box. These things have happened to me and many of you I am sure. Secondly: We need to take more pride in examining our aircfat and making sure they are worthy of flight before assuming a kit/ARF is ready out of the box or "per manual'. (Especially some fly by night Company). Some of these Jet Kits/ARFS dont even have manuals from what I have heard numerous times. Thirdly: We need to educate Pilots a little better by having "Seminars" at Jet Events on Safety issues such as "Fail safe setup, turbine flameout emergency landing proceedures, etc."

Am I wrong for pointing these issues out?

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

thats nice!!!!!!!!!
just give the faa more reason to restrict our hobby, dont be surprised if in 6 months you see a full blown ban on turbin powerd aircraft.
i know this is a ducted fan

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

[/quote]

Bomb your vans....andy ducks head...lol I had to say it!
[/quote]

Yeah that was some mature jet flying, sorry but I can't take a thing that Frosty says seriously.

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Bomb your vans....andy ducks head...lol I had to say it!
[/quote]

Yeah that was some mature jet flying, sorry but I can't take a thing that Frosty says seriously. (quote)
[/quote]

Reid,

I dont give a rats ***** what you take seriously about me or not. The fact is that there are issues that we (or AMA) currently need to look at and try to prevent future problems/accidents if at all possible.

I find it VERY hard to take you seriously when you tell me how much fun you are having with your "toy" trains and have asked me NOT to say anything to anyone about. :eek: You can respond to this in anyway you feel but that is the HONEST to God truth and you know it! If you dont like this thread and cannot take it seriously then go play with your little toys and your mutts.

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

this thread should be removed!

the feds monitor this site we dont nead to be supplying them with ammunition even if its not in the us

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

This happened in 2008???? Old news and I would add not the greatest photo sequence to promote this great pastime of ours... Saftey should be # 1 in my book for all of us. I have been to and participated at many jet shows over the years and have seen it all. There are many individuals I have seen that have no business holding a T-Waiver period. These are the individuals that will cause issues in the long run. We should police ourselves. I know it is easier said than done.

DA

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Yeah that was some mature jet flying, sorry but I can't take a thing that Frosty says seriously. (quote)
[/quote]

Reid,

I dont give a rats ***** what you take seriously about me or not. The fact is that there are issues that we (or AMA) currently need to look at and try to prevent future problems/accidents if at all possible.

I find it VERY hard to take you seriously when you tell me how much fun you are having with your ''toy'' trains and have asked me NOT to say anything to anyone about. :eek: You can respond to this in anyway you feel but that is the HONEST to God truth and you know it! If you dont like this thread and cannot take it seriously then go play with your little toys and your mutts.
[/quote]

Ewwww and you are sooooo much higher up on the totem pole because you play with toy airplanes..... Yes I do build model railroad models, and I do build model airplanes......you should try actually building a model sometime instead of just buying them already built.....it's actually quite rewarding to be an actual modeller!

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

It is interesting to see such big personalities clash. I have never understood why in this segment of the hobby more people don't simply get along as every aspect of this segment of the hobby, from ARF's, Kits, home mades, etc etc. fascinates me so much, and there is so much to know and learn that not a single one of us can be an EXPERT at it all. I have sincerely tried, and it simply is not possible, at least for me.

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Reid,

I dont give a rats ***** what you take seriously about me or not. The fact is that there are issues that we (or AMA) currently need to look at and try to prevent future problems/accidents if at all possible.

I find it VERY hard to take you seriously when you tell me how much fun you are having with your ''toy'' trains and have asked me NOT to say anything to anyone about. :eek: You can respond to this in anyway you feel but that is the HONEST to God truth and you know it! If you dont like this thread and cannot take it seriously then go play with your little toys and your mutts.
[/quote]

Ewwww and you are sooooo much higher up on the totem pole because you play with toy airplanes..... Yes I do build model railroad models, and I do build model airplanes......you should try actually building a model sometime instead of just buying them already built.....it's actually quite rewarding to be an actual modeller!


[/quote]


Reid,

You crack me up. :) Thats why I love your ugly pot belly booty so much. :D Can we go back to spoonin and be friends again? I promise not to fart in your bed this time. [:'(]

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

[/quote]


Reid,

You crack me up. :) Thats why I love your ugly pot belly booty so much. :D Can we go back to spoonin and be friends again? I promise not to fart in your bed this time. [:'(]
[/quote]




Ok I am as guilty of carrying this one on as you are but I won't resort to the name calling and bashing. So ...... several folks have asked you what specifically needs to be changed about the way we do things. What is it that needs to be changed? I have been flying turbines for 12 years now, I was around when there were still a lot more ducted fans athan turbines at events. I have seen the steps that JPO and the AMA collectively did to make our aspect of the hobby safer. Fact is that these are still models that are occasionally going to hit the ground. They still have the potential to start a fire, as do their full size counterparts. The full scale industry has not been able to prevent all accidents so how can we? I see far fewer crashes than I used to at events, JOH last weekend had three maybe, one engine came off an airplane (never seen that happen before) no fire, no one was injured. Another flamed out and just flat did not make it back to the runway, and an EDF wadded up on takeoff when the pilot apparently pulled it off a little green, or so I was told. We had 2 crashes at our meet (MS Afterburner), both could be attributed to battery issues. one fire that was quickly extinguished because we had the necessary equipment on hand. How do we make it any safer?

DR

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Never mind-off topic

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Bob

You & I can remember when they use STEAM....:D
AVRO Crash video and other like posting IMO, IF Big Brother (FAA)is using U-Tube and monitoring this forum as their source for information WE are in BIG TROUBLE.

Semper Fi
Joe

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Reid, your still missing my point. I'm not implying that Jet Pilots cannot fly. I'm simply stating that if we dont prevent accidents as a "whole" in this Hobby then we will be the first ones to pack it up and head to Chinatown on a one way train. (I'm gonna hate that cause that will bring back bad days with Uncle MJ) How can we keep the "Jet Hobby" safer? I just gave you guys three examples in my previous post. Do you not agree that these are methods we should at least look at?

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Yep your right, I just don't think we are that important, shut it down and you have just lost 10's of thousand of dollars from all over this planet and jobs and tax dollars

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Patrick. as for keeping the hobby safer, that has the start with the Turbine CD's and who they issue the waivers too, we have to be very selective when we issue them. I have heard stories on how some pilots earned, i mean got their waiver.


on another point, as for crashes, they happen and will happen we can't stop that, but we can decrease the amount, or decrease the damage, First by removing all propane bottles from the jet... thats a start....

BUT the other crashes we have to stop is the ones in the media. it is so easy to post a crash video seen on youtube or elsewhere and broadcast it here and make lite of it. I am one who does believe BIG Brother IS watching. There always pilots here with alot to say, some of it good and some, well not so good, but their tune will change when they have lost their favorite spot for flying, I know, I invited pilots up for an event, there was a crash and it had propane stat up bottle on board and after the fire was out, so were we........

we are the best of the best when it comes to being R/C pilots, lets all act like it and protect what we have, because at the rate we are going, in time, we will have nowhere to fly. You see it more and more pilots asked not to come back.....

Just my thoughts....

Mark

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

In my own honest opinion........you have ALL missed the main point and that point is.......model/minature aircraft and real aircraft do not mix. I have been invited to fly demos at county airports and have refused all of them. If I do good I am a celebrity...If I do bad and something goes wrong ( which we as modelers know can happen) I am no longer the single culprit but associate myself with the whole modeling community. This accident could have been completely avoided. Saying it was an "INSURED" event means nothing. It still happened! Saying it happened in another country outside the USA means nothing. The FAI is a world orgainization. This incident effects the world modeling community. Flying any form of model in the vicinity of real aircraft is thoughtless....... period. I don't give a "hoot'n haller" what anyone else thinks.

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

yep you had better be paying close attention , changes are in the works miss norton and several other congressman are pushing the faa into banning the use of turbins period, and also hamstring the rest of us with altitude airspead limits and weight limits .
the ama is in negotiations but where it ends up is anyone's guess.

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Really, how so?

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Care to share where this information comes from?

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

Excuse me...the FAI is a world orgainization. Thank you for bringing that to my attention rhklenke!
Previous post corrected. The FAI and the FAA are both linked to the operation and safety of civil and private aircraft here in the USA and around the globe. I'm sure they are not impressed with this incident and the AMA and other world modeling associations can only kneel and beg at their magnitude. Incidents like this do not help our hobby in any way, shape, or form. I do however believe that the AMA is our strongest and largest voice for model aviation in the world arena. I also believe that common sense and good judgement are a valuable asset for us as individuals. I am not willing to risk the overall good reputation of this great hobby for my own personal 10 minutes of fame and glory that could turn into tragedy in 10 seconds. FYI...I am not a newbie to this hobby with over 40 years operating all types of models. So I am not just blowing (jet) smoke up your "A"!
Respectfully, Speedy-Gonzales

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

My suggestion: Wanna clean the house? Start at the top and the rest will soon follow.

David

RE: Avro Arrow CRASH
 

As a MAAC member from Western Canada I was aware of this only as "an incident", that happened last year that is having a momentus effect on flying in Canada. Since this, and one other insurance involving incident occured last year, we have heard nothing good from the national organization about our insurance situation. "Everyone needs to be extra vigilant in the safety aspects of our hobby more than ever before" was the first thing that came down the pipe. It was followed very shortly by amendments to the insurance regulations and coverages in which the insurance company refused to insure us at pilot-carrying airshows. Fair enough. If I were invited to perform at such an event I would require coverage from the event. In Canada our insurance is different from AMA insurance where MAAC is our primary insurer. We do not use our homeowners insurance first, then MAAC in case of something serious.

The state of flying in Canada is under some pretty tight scrutiny right now, with fields in Quebec being closed for agricultural/political reasons and everyone across the country being threatened with loss of insurance coverage at all.

I'm glad I have what I do, to be able to progress in this hobby, but I'm getting a bit overburdened with the big people crap that comes along with it. Will I stop flying?. No. Will I make sure my voice is heard at Club and Zone meetings... You bet. One day outside with the sun at your back and the blue skys above is usually enough for me to not worry too much about the 'other' part of this hobby. But i will be ever vigilant about monitoring my safety code and making sure that my ***** is covered for the future that I'm around.

Thanks for letting me vent

Ryan.