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RE: Turbine or EDF
I've been told by a very knowledgeable and reliable source that there is currently NO nano technology used in hobby LiPo's, period. The breakthrough you are likely referring to is the introduction of controlled nanotubes in the Anode that prevents micro cracks from forming, separating the Anode material enough to prevent Ions from flowing through the material evenly and fully. It was announced a few years ago but again, I've been told in no uncertain terms this technology has not made it to the market yet. The promise of tenfold capacity over current chemistry is indeed a huge breakthrough but no nano (by definition, 10-9 or nm) technology is part of what we use today (despite the word "nano" being part of Hyperions marketing). As for someone mentioning TP using 3250 cells in parallel to make their BVM 6500 40C packs, it has nothing to do with doubling them to gain an advantage, it has everything to do with that capacity not being available in a single cell package...
Jack |
RE: Turbine or EDF
Dave from Hyperion explained the "nano" in the Hyperion batteries were not truely "nano":
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=72 but again . . . so what? This has degraded into yet another BVM versus XPS or XXXX thread. Yawn . . . . who gives a $($(%. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
The Ford vs Chevy debate usually only serves to entrench people into their own camps and does little to expand knowledge.
I am appreciating the constructive input put forth though as it's helping me wrap my small brain around this entire subject. Batteries are the power source for the fan regardless of who's fan is involved. I can share that I handled Bob's battery packs right after a flight at Hamburg jets and they were just a tad warmer than ambient temperature. I seem to remember that a few years the packs were much warmer. Now for what ever reasons that's a good thing. I have some TP's for my Trex 450 and I've always liked them. Having said that do you suppose the price difference of TP and the rest is due to technology differences or marketing? I'm sure its a little of both, I'm just wondering which has the greater influence. Sean, good do see you in this "discussion" lol. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: Socomon Dave from Hyperion explained the ''nano'' in the Hyperion batteries were not truely ''nano'': http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=72 but again . . . so what? This has degraded into yet another BVM versus XPS or XXXX thread. Yawn . . . . who gives a $($(%. Jack |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: BobH The Ford vs Chevy debate usually only serves to entrench people into their own camps and does little to expand knowledge. I am appreciating the constructive input put forth though as it's helping me wrap my small brain around this entire subject. Batteries are the power source for the fan regardless of who's fan is involved. I can share that I handled Bob's battery packs right after a flight at Hamburg jets and they were just a tad warmer than ambient temperature. I seem to remember that a few years the packs were much warmer. Now for what ever reasons that's a good thing. I have some TP's for my Trex 450 and I've always liked them. Having said that do you suppose the price difference of TP and the rest is due to technology differences or marketing? I'm sure its a little of both, I'm just wondering which has the greater influence. Sean, good do see you in this ''discussion'' lol. The fan itself is rock solid, upgrades to the motor and the ESC have kept it at the fore front and BVM has been there throught thier upgrade policy to make sure you can stay current if you so choose. The swap from last years cells to this years chemistry was huge, without a motor upgrade and ESC upgrade you'd simply burn up the unit, BVM made sure they were ready to take back and upgrade anyone that wanted to run these new packs, a nice option given they dynamically balance on their Heins each time so there is no vibration. My current project is a Bandit ARF EDF, we've already flown in on the 5612 VioFan and next we will move on to a custom unit they provided with a different motor and without an ESC (since I'll be using a Spin 200 now that we're getting above 12S), we'll be taking it up to 15S in 1S steps to gather full data at each step. I'm considering putting up a build thread, really a data sharing thread if anyone is interested... Regards, Jack |
RE: Turbine or EDF
Hey Jack:
Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: Socomon Hey Jack: Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. Jack |
RE: Turbine or EDF
Jack thank you for that information.
I've know Bob casually for a long time even though I've never had a jet. I can say that he's always been on the leading edge of research and performance. As a personal aside when I called him to discuss the F-80 etc. I was having some medical concerns. His first question was "bob what's going on with you?". He was concerned about me as a person and not as a customer. To me that speaks volumes about the man. I still have some medical stuff to work through albeit minor. As for my jet of choice it still comes down to the F-80. You don't see a lot of them out there. Plus I have the dynamite photos of a very cool scheme. But having said that.. a question to you jet experienced guys. Would it be more prudent to get say the Electra kit and mechanical retracts ect. and fly it first for a while? And then get the F-80? I'm just wondering (probably overthinking is more like it). Thank you all :) |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: jfetter ORIGINAL: Socomon Hey Jack: Don't piss in my ear and tell me it's raining. Jack BobH - best of luck with whatever power system you choose. I look forward to seeing it at the club. Signing off. Steve |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: Socomon Look - anyone who has read more than two of your posts here or on RCGroups knows your agenda. I don't know why you bother trying to keep up the pretense of being objective. Steve Jack |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: BobH But having said that.. a question to you jet experienced guys. Would it be more prudent to get say the Electra kit and mechanical retracts ect. and fly it first for a while? And then get the F-80? I'm just wondering (probably overthinking is more like it). Thank you all :) Jack |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: BobH But having said that.. a question to you jet experienced guys. Would it be more prudent to get say the Electra kit and mechanical retracts ect. and fly it first for a while? And then get the F-80? I'm just wondering (probably overthinking is more like it). Thank you all :) |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: jfetter My current project is a Bandit ARF EDF, we've already flown in on the 5612 VioFan and next we will move on to a custom unit they provided with a different motor and without an ESC (since I'll be using a Spin 200 now that we're getting above 12S), we'll be taking it up to 15S in 1S steps to gather full data at each step. I'm considering putting up a build thread, really a data sharing thread if anyone is interested... Regards, Jack I would be interested in seeing a thread on RCU about your project. I just aquired one of the large BVM F-86's and need to decide if I want to put my P-120 in it or convert it to a large high-powered EDF. If I convert it I would want it to have enough power to fly around with authority instead of floating around the sky like a gait scale park flyer like most of the large EDFs did at EJets '09. I know Rob had mentioned something about possibly converting one of these and I would be interested in seeing what he's doing also. Kirk |
RE: Turbine or EDF
1 Attachment(s)
ORIGINAL: BobH Jack thank you for that information. I've know Bob casually for a long time even though I've never had a jet. I can say that he's always been on the leading edge of research and performance. As a personal aside when I called him to discuss the F-80 etc. I was having some medical concerns. His first question was ''bob what's going on with you?''. He was concerned about me as a person and not as a customer. To me that speaks volumes about the man. I still have some medical stuff to work through albeit minor. As for my jet of choice it still comes down to the F-80. You don't see a lot of them out there. Plus I have the dynamite photos of a very cool scheme. But having said that.. a question to you jet experienced guys. Would it be more prudent to get say the Electra kit and mechanical retracts ect. and fly it first for a while? And then get the F-80? I'm just wondering (probably overthinking is more like it). Thank you all :) Electric Jet kit..with retracts mechanical or otherwise I believe would be a great way to see what the EDF world has to offer. You'll get experience with the technology...it is differrent than either D/F or turbine. It is amazing how the technology is evolving!! A note about batteries...Lipo's don't like cold temps they will not supply the ma's the pack is rated for.. Nor do they like a flight that goes to long...and you ask the batteries to supply more ma's than the pack is rated for!! The over draw scenario is the one that will kill a LiPo pack quicker than anything!! Note: A very inexpensive way to experience a complex EDF with retracts is to order an SU-34 Full Back or the F-5 E from Hobby-Lobby.com. One or the other may be on back order my first SU-34 took over a month..But it was worth the wait. A Twin Vectored EDF...yes foam..Very fragile, but very detailed and impressive in flight. Obviously these EDF's are not speed demons, but mine will do the Cobra loops inverted and right side up on command and land on it's stinger tail pod..if you ask it to! I haven't read nearly all the posts on this thread..but good quality batteries at a very low prices are to be found at HobbyKing.com. HK has a hard time keeping batteries in stock..and I would suggest you don't place an order unless the amount of the type you want shows say more than 10 in stock. They will back order or you can change items but once you click buy your money is gone..No refunds! The Turnigy 25-30c and Rhino 20-30xc packs are very good quality and in some cases less than 1/2 the price you'll pay anywhere else...but remember never over draw a packs ma rating! Lee H. DeMary |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: Socomon This has degraded into yet another BVM versus XPS or XXXX thread. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
Here's what I know first hand. I have been flying 35 years , turbines since the JPX days and EDF's for 4-5 years now staring with flying my buddies 70mm Het planes for him at demos. I built a Kyosho T-33's with astro flight power and Kokham 3200 cells for batteries for my first EDF and flew it at the Liberty Bell Rally after hours 3 years ago. When I decided to build a large EDF I went with the BVM 4010 EVF and Electra kit as my first big EDF since I saw it demostrated at Fentrss by the Malciones 3 years ago. I decided to convert my turbine powerd BVM F-86 to EVF last year and got a 5612 for it and had my 4010 converted to 5212 just prior to the 5612's becoming availabe. I have 25 flights now on my Electra with it 7 of them at at the Hamburg Jet Rally last weekend off grass and I not sorry about anything with the setup. My wife just bought me the F-80 for my birthday and it will have what ever the latest BVM setup is for power when it is finished. BVM stuff is not the cheapest but the best never is. Bob you did the right thing you went and saw what works at the Hamburg rally and not saying that there isn't some other setup that will not work; just what I have from BVM sure does and does it well. I'm a very happy BVM customer sponcered by my wife and noone else. Flame suit on. LOL
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RE: Turbine or EDF
and another guy saying the TP 6500 used parallel cells as an advantage when in fact it is just a limitation of availablility. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: skyhawknut and another guy saying the TP 6500 used parallel cells as an advantage when in fact it is just a limitation of availablility. Jack |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: k_sonn ORIGINAL: Socomon This has degraded into yet another BVM versus XPS or XXXX thread. I have nothing for or against BVM. I would/will buy BVM when I think they have the best bang for the buck in any product category I am looking for. The nice thing about not being a shill, or otherwiie bought and paid for, is that I am free to open my mind to any brand or possibility. I can be objective enough to recognize that Thunderpower packs of a couple years ago were crap (which is probably why BVM was flying Evo at that point), and the new Thunderpower packs hold promise, though there may still be cheaper brands that accomplish similar results or suffieciently similar results that the extra price is not justified. I don't have to own an EDF larger than 90mm to be able to do the math of cost and performance on EDF versus turbine and reach my own conclusion. In fact I have and that is why I am now building a turbine. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
I give advice based on more than just "cheaper ways of getting results." If you are accussing me of being bought by BVM or being a BVM shill, you really are clueless. Ask Sean (StrictlyScale) what advice I gave him for his Yellow Aircraft F-18 or what advice I gave him for his twin project or what adice I gave him for his Spark or what advice I gave him for his Hunter project.
Just because I like BVM products doesn't make me a shill or bought. It just means I truely understand the value of a quality product backed by the best customer service in the world. It's not my fault BVM products are the standard and everyone else is playing catch up and I'm intelligent enough to recognise it. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
I have not read enough of your posts to have an opinion one way or the other, however, I have seen enough posts by some to have a very definite opinion.
However, I will remind everyone that Bob's question was EDF or turbine, and not what brand of EDF is the gold-standard. |
RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: k_sonn I give advice based on more than just ''cheaper ways of getting results.'' If you are accussing me of being bought by BVM or being a BVM shill, you really are clueless. Ask Sean (StrictlyScale) what advice I gave him for his Yellow Aircraft F-18 or what advice I gave him for his twin project or what adice I gave him for his Spark or what advice I gave him for his Hunter project. Just because I like BVM products doesn't make me a shill or bought. It just means I truely understand the value of a quality product backed by the best customer service in the world. It's not my fault BVM products are the standard and everyone else is playing catch up and I'm intelligent enough to recognise it. Just because you like a product because it is quality (e.g. liking a Mercedes Benz), doesn't make you a shill, just a satisfied customre. Tim |
RE: Turbine or EDF
Well said Ti, I agree 100%...the advice Kirk has shared with me often includes 2 or 3 options, never tied to 1 or 2 vendors, his experience, etc etc. It's been very helpful. Geesh, I ask a lot of questions!? :D I too watch every $$ spent, and try to push that dollar as far as I can. I have never once been let down by the purchases I've made with BVM.
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RE: Turbine or EDF
ORIGINAL: jfetter ORIGINAL: BobH The Ford vs Chevy debate usually only serves to entrench people into their own camps and does little to expand knowledge. I am appreciating the constructive input put forth though as it's helping me wrap my small brain around this entire subject. Batteries are the power source for the fan regardless of who's fan is involved. I can share that I handled Bob's battery packs right after a flight at Hamburg jets and they were just a tad warmer than ambient temperature. I seem to remember that a few years the packs were much warmer. Now for what ever reasons that's a good thing. I have some TP's for my Trex 450 and I've always liked them. Having said that do you suppose the price difference of TP and the rest is due to technology differences or marketing? I'm sure its a little of both, I'm just wondering which has the greater influence. Sean, good do see you in this ''discussion'' lol. The fan itself is rock solid, upgrades to the motor and the ESC have kept it at the fore front and BVM has been there throught thier upgrade policy to make sure you can stay current if you so choose. The swap from last years cells to this years chemistry was huge, without a motor upgrade and ESC upgrade you'd simply burn up the unit, BVM made sure they were ready to take back and upgrade anyone that wanted to run these new packs, a nice option given they dynamically balance on their Heins each time so there is no vibration. My current project is a Bandit ARF EDF, we've already flown in on the 5612 VioFan and next we will move on to a custom unit they provided with a different motor and without an ESC (since I'll be using a Spin 200 now that we're getting above 12S), we'll be taking it up to 15S in 1S steps to gather full data at each step. I'm considering putting up a build thread, really a data sharing thread if anyone is interested... Regards, Jack I'd be interested in seeing your results. I will be converting a BARF early next year and am looking at different options, Tam, Stu, and BVM; and your findings will help greatly. George |
RE: Turbine or EDF
Steve, you know I respect your opinion as I do every one else. I've been around modeling long enough to be a decent judge of what works and what doesn't. I've spent years building some scale planes too lol.
I think if we all were sitting round in a room throwing down a few cool ones we would understand each other much better.. In my experience much is lost in the written word because we aren't writers and sometimes things are taken the way they weren't intended. I think that's the case in this thread. Truly there are many ways to achieve the end goal. Thank you all for giving your views :) |
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