Yes, he probably would. But also remember that a buggy runs and handles differently than even a Revo. So, whichever truck he gets, LST2, Savage, or even Revo, he will have to drive differently. If he gets a Revo, I think that might be better for him since he, as a racer, would probably be tempted to eventually start racing it in the MT class. But as for a strict basher (little or no racing in mind), with pretty much set-and-forget suspension set-up, the Savage makes a great beat-up truck. The LST2 would fall inbetween Savage and Revo, the LST2 can be bashed and raced.

Now, for modded trucks: The Revo is alot tougher than it looks, and with little upgrades, it can be made pretty much bullet proof. I am not familiar with the LST2 hop-ups, but being a Losi, I know there are hundreds of hop-ups to make that a tough tuck also. And of course, the Savage can be made way tougher than it alerady is with hop-ups from virtually every aftermarket company. Also, the Savage can be made into an extreme racer, with even better handling and racing characteristsic than a stock Revo, but it will not be cheap.

SavageJim I can agree with you on all of that but the savage racer part, there's one thing that doesn't fall right "extreme racer, with even better handling and racing characteristsic than a stock Revo" you said stock...Anyone who owns a revo and has played with the setups can make it handle even better with just a few upgrades to where a savage could only dream of being able to handle aswell.

Yes, because it is possible to bend properly designed 4mm thick 6082-T6 aluminum TVPs under any practical bashing conditions. Your Revo's chassis would bend in half before my TVPs even began to undergo elastic deformation. But before that, you would be snapping your brittle composite suspension arms, and ripping through your 6061-0 butter soft hinge pin braces.

And as for the LST, well, aside from the broken low impact strength composite suspension arms, this picture speaks for itself.



I would also dust both of your trucks in top speed and acceleration using my Picco 28. Handling is the only advantage you would have, but with my 1.25" extended chassis and 1" extended width, it wouldn't be a significant difference while out bashing.

now, now, now. Let's not start a war here! Upon checking out alot of different options, I opted for a Kyosho MadForce. Now everyone behave!!!

Interesting choice... what were the deciding factors?

Who said anything about "practical" bashing conditions? My Revo's chassis has not had any problems except for bending the engine mounting tab from 4 years of abuse... I haven't broken a suspension arm from bashing for quite a long time (~2 years)... never had a hinge pin or hinge pin brace fail yet in 4 years of hard bashing.... my offer still stands. I'd put my "unintelligently modded" Revo against anything you've got... even highly-modded....

LOL... I'd love to see you out accellerate me and have a higher top speed with that Picco .28 and a 12lb+ truck. I've got almost the same HP / TQ numbers as you do... with a 3lb lighter truck... not to mention better gear ratios.

I know that, that I why I did say stock. Any yes, anyone on teh track with a Revo 9 times out of 10 will have modded it. Every one of my friends have modded their Revos in one way or another: dumping the sorry TRX engines for like an OS or other engine, even a big block and big block kit, RPM suspensions, and other various options, and all of tehm have spend the $50 for lungsford titanium rods. Can an extremely modded race minded Savage keep up with these few Revo mods? Probably depending on what was put on tht Savage to bring it to par. But also, definitely not if all the wrong mods and parts were put on the Savage. The only way to test this would be to get one driver of excellent driving skills, clone him, and give one the modded Savage, and the other clone the modded Revo and make them race.

"Practical" bashing conditions are just that, practical. As high as I can go. Anywhere from 10 to 30ft in the air, as well as accidentally hitting objects at full throttle is practical. Throwing the truck out of an airplane is not.

As far as your TM323 making similar torque and HP numbers to a Picco 28, LMAO! The RB makes 47oz/in of torque and 1.22HP on Nitrodyne's X-dyno. The Picco would make about 80oz/in of torque and close to 2hp on the same dyno. Not even close.

Oh, you got me... my Revo can't even keep up with a MiniT...

I'm telling you, bro... you're underestimating the speed / gearing of a Revo. You're talking a 25% lighter truck... with better gearing and a very powerful engine.

BTW - "The Picco would make about 80oz/in of torque and close to 2hp on the same dyno."

About? Close to? Those aren't hard numbers... Keep in mind... a Savage has to be a 4.6 to be able to beat a 2.5R Revo's accelleration...

Oh, and keep in mind... "practical" does not mean over 20' in the air... of course, i'm talking EXTREME bashing conditions... but, I guess your Savage can't handle that.

So you've thrown your Revo out of an airplane? I've done everything short of that, and I can tell you right now, no Revo can handle the sort of abuse a true extreme basher dishes out.

Those are not hard numbers, but it is funny to watch you evade the point of the post. It sure would be hard for you to admit that a Picco 28 actually outputs nearly twice the torque and HP of your engine.

"Better" gearing? What is this supposed to mean? Better for acceleration or top speed? Do you have any idea what you are talking about, or are you just basing this on intuition?

I must be missing something if my understanding of the Revo's potential speed is an underestimate. Supertib couldn't push a Revo over 50mph with a highly modified Picco 28, yet he succeeded with a Savage. Explain that one?

Uhh HPI Savage RC with a FTT AB Mods Drag modded P3 Picco. 28 the worlds fasted revo is 66mph and it was pretty much stock other then slayer gearing and a couple other things. Just cause supertib cant do it dont mean crap. You need to get your facts straight.

Wrong setup? I don't know... I didn't watch the build of that Revo....

Ok, so the .28 puts out a lot more power than my TM323... so what? What's your point? The Revo still is 25% lighter... and geared better.... for both accelleration AND top speed. (with a Revo... it IS possible to have both... with enough torque / HP) With a wide ratio gearset, .23+ motor and 17/35 gearing... I could get a Revo to 50+MPH. You Savage guys make me laugh... you have a hard time admitting that the Savage has flaws and isn't the BEST thing since sliced bread. I'm not saying that about the Revo OR LST2... I like 'em... but I know they have their downfalls... but, I guarantee my Revo could handle the same bashing, if not more, in it's current form (stock except for upgraded motor)... being "unintelligently modded"

Oh and if the revo's chassis is weak check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD7RthKTJ_A
No damage to the chassis and very minimal damage to the other componets.

Okay guys, lets put this to an end, please. The Revo can bash, there are relatively easy to obtain hop-ups for it to make it into a tough truck. But the Savage can bash also and it was designed for that in mind. And yes, even with moderate mods, it can rnu with, and in some cases, outrun a Revo too. There are a few people here on RCU who DO race and win with Savages, beating out Revos too.

I am replying to myself here so as not to single anyone out. But lets stop the agument, everyone has made their points from their own experiences with these trucks. And for what they are designed for, I highly recommend them to someone based on what he wants to do. But lets not get into an arguent over which truck is the toughest. Each one of these can be made into very hard cor bashers, you might have to spend more money on one or the other, but it can be done. The same goes for making a truck into a great racer. BUT please, dont let your FIERCE brand loyalties get into the way here.

Instead, lets here HOW to make a truck into a great basher. For example, if you love the Losi LST2, lets hear about what hop-ups and mods are the best to make it bash. Or if you love the Savage and want to race it, lets here about what hop-ups and mods make it a great racer. The same goes for a Revo.

There is no way a Revo that still resembles a Revo could hit 66mph, sorry, but that is a load of BS.

My point should be obvious. An RB TM323 equipped Revo will be lucky to hit 45mph with a perfect setup. A Picco 28 equipped Savage will meet or exceed that, despite the greater rotating mass and weight of the truck.

When did I say that a Savage is flawless? Didn't I just tell you that a Savage must be intelligently modified in order to survive extreme bashing? Maybe I'm retarded, but that doesn't sound like "flawless" to me...

If you're ever up in Canada, come bashing with me, and I will show you how to severely break your Revo within 5 minutes. Then you'll want to buy a Savage and "intelligently modify" it to enable it to even compare to my truck.

Proof... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD7RthKTJ_A

***NOTE*** Pay attention to the A-arms and pin holders.

LOL... 15/36 gearing will net about 45MPH... 16/36 will get 46-47.... with the wheels in the air most of the way. Add in a wide-ratio gearset... 48-49. Throw on some 7" tires... 50+

I'd bet my truck that the radar gun he is using is not reading accurately. Supertib clocked an XTM 247 powered Savage at somewhere around 55mph using a radar gun, then switched to different tires, and was getting readings of mid 30's. Truth is, you need a very good quality radar gun to accurately clock Nitro MTs, because cheaper guns will often read the velocity of the top of the tire. That truck is probably close to 50mph.

About the gearing, I'm sorry, but you have no idea how fast 50mph actually is. The difference between 45mph and 50mph is the difference between a stock Savage XL running the low revving 5.9 engine and the terrible HPI polished pipe, and supertib's highly modified Picco 28s running an 086 pipe, similar gearing and identical tires. Using the highest gearing you could fit in your Revo, you would be lucky to break 45mph.

I'd like to Jim, but this tool is actually trying to tell me that his STOCK Revo is capable of withstanding more abuse than a Savage that is built from the ground up using far superior materials and properly designed force reduction (elastic) points. I suppose it is my nature to get sucked into arguments with only the most stubborn and clueless individuals on the internet.

HPI Savage RC- Go to the Trx forums or Rccna and Mike (worlds fastest nitro revo owner) also known as Over_Revo and he will clue you in on everything you wanna know I'm sure. Also its real mature to start calling others "most stubborn and clueless " when your one of those individuals yourself. And I believe Mike lives in Canada, you may just get a chance to see the worlds fastest revo...if your not afraid that your intelligent savage will be dumbed down when the revo blows by it

Also your thinking of CB and Spur combo's...your forgetting the revo has multiple gearing ratios, we can add RCM diff kits and install buggy or truggy diffs, we can change the spur and cb, we can also change the tranny gearing with wide,standard, or close tranny sets and thanks to the slayer we can run higher gearing and get more top end out of the truck since the slayer gearing is higher then your standard revo 3.3 since the slayer has to compensate for the 2.2 tires.

LOL... can't prove your point, so you resort to name calling and degrading comments? Truly superior.

I think you're about to lose your truck.... yes, I know how fast 50MPH actually is... my Tahoe and S10 both will go 50MPH... that looks like a bushnell radar gun, which is one of the most accurate for R/C and sports (if it can pick up a baseball... it should be able to pick up a Revo). I'm sorry to insult you with the idea that ANYTHING may POSSIBLY be better than a Savage... but... the Revo is lighter and better geared... and you're not going to put your money where your mouth is... neither am I... so, if you can't say anything else other than calling people names and insulting them, then you have said your piece and so have I.

Oh yeah, and when did the memo go out about Supertib being the end-all-be-all of R/C speed? I must have missed that one. You people need to CC: me on those!

Uh, anyone here call for a brushless E-revo?

It's faster stock in terms of acceleration and top speed than any other MT anywhere, apart from a couple of other bespoke electric MTs, in any state of modification, so you nitro boys go ahead and argue about this .7 of a hp here and 3oz of torque there, and we'll keep our REAL hp and 60mph+ top ends straight from the factory.

It's funny that people are willing to argue over amounts of power that make little to no difference in actual driving as most motors are producing nothing near either there claimed factory figures or dyno figures when put into 11lb+ monster truck applications. Driving feel and power depend on your state of mind and the atmospheric conditions on the day, as well as whether or not you can tune (and for the most part, people cannot tune properly, or have tuned the engine to the point of destruction). When it comes down to it, are you really willing to argue over which massively overmodded Savage/Revo/LST2 etc. is going to pull 10ft on another such truck because it might have an extra gear, better ratios or a $50 more expensive motor when someone can pop down the shop, buy a brand spankers new truck, remove the plastic, throw a couple of cheap 3s lipos into it and blow both into the weeds in pretty much any way you care to mention? Lower CG than even the nitro Revo, faster acceleration and higher top end than even the nastiest nitro trucks, tough by design, low mounted packs, all the mods available for the nitro Revo on the electric... It's pretty much game over for nitro posturing boys.

I knew this thread was missing something....some flashlight lover coming in and insulting the nitro heads.

LOL... I'd take an E-Revo... they're SWEET. Of course, taking nitro away from it takes away of some of the "ooh" and "aah..." Sure, they're fast... but it may take a while to draw a crowd... I fire up the 323 w/ RB Pipe... and instantly people are looking. I am looking forward to the Mini Revo. [X(]

Mini Revo with a .09 would be fun.

Yeah... but what I read was it'll be brushless...

Yes, but it would still be a blast