I've been in modeling on/off for a long time and have known about pattern flying since the 70's. My reflexes are not getting any younger and I have the bug to try. I'm soliciting feedback on what/how I should start with.

Here are some stats about what experience I have:

- built and flown r/c gliders (not powered) on/off since early 80's which would include the faster aileron-type slope ships.
- learned how to fly a pattern plane on Realflight 3.5 similator. (I have an "Oxai" Pinnacle F3a model which I downloaded from the KnifeEdge site). I can take-off land and do basic loops, rolls etc. Not sure how much that is worth, though :-).
- have not flown any power at all (other than sim above).
- have lots of building experience from the early days, but my career/time is not going to allow me to spend months building a model.

Where do I go from here ? I am almost certainly thinking of an ARF, but my knowledge of the hobby and what is available now is pretty dated to say the least. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks all in advance.

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go to NSRCA.org lots of info there and also on here

What region of CA are you in?

I'm in southern CA area, ventura county
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go to a local club so you can fly with an instructor for the first few times. If you feel like it you could get yourself a 50 size Sebart plane. Look at the F3A Unlimited website for some inspiration! http://www.f3aunlimited.com/webstore/

Volkert

Thanks for the website reference. I have been looking at the electrify "sequence" as a starter plane. The cost is relatively reasonable (160 in the US) and low risk, but looks like it would be much harder to fly than a larger plane. I'm kind of hooked on wanting an electric. I'd prefer a 60 size or 2M plane, but cost is much higher and more risk.
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Sebart has a 30 and a 50 as well as bigger pattern planes that are, from all reports, worthy:

http://www.sebartrc.com/

3DHS has the Aspera 46" and the Osiris 62" that are, from all reports, cutting edge:

http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/

Do internet searches on these models for hours of reading on various build threads, etc.

Best,

Bill

How hard in general is it going to be to fly one of these models if I have experience with faster aileron slope gliders and pattern simulators ? Is there any value in starting with a slower sport model or low-wing traineror am I going to get bored with that ? Want to stay with electrics...thanks

I should explain what I meant by "pattern" simulators. I meant with "Real Flight" with one of the pubic domain pattern planes imported into it..I don't have any problem flying that - but have not flown real-power only real slope (in 20 mph winds).

Most pattern airplanes are very easy to fly. We want them setup this way as it makes flying the maneuvers easier if the plane flies very well. Most do not have very high roll rates or pitch rates as we want smoothness and gracefullness, not how fast you can roll and such. They certainly aren't harder to fly than any of the aerobatic planes on real flight in low rates. Most pattern pilots only use higher rates for certain maneuvers, but none that you would be performing in the lower classes. 10 degrees on elevator, 15 on aileron and 15 or so on low rate rudder (you will need higher for stall turns) are not unusual throws for pilots flying Sportsman,

Arch

My suggestion is the 3D Hobby Shop Osiris. It is a good compromise of size (62") and price ($379). I few against one at the D4 Season Finale this past summer, and it seemed to fly every bit as good as my 110 size Sebart Wind.

I have a Great Planes Venus .40, which I just don't enjoy flying due to it's smaller size. This plane was replaced by the Sequence. People seem to really like the Sequence though.

I haven't yet flown a full blown 2M plane yet, but really there is no need until I feel that I've maxed out the capabilities of my Sebart Wind - which I am far from doing. They say 'bigger flies better' - which I agree is true, but the planes only fly as good as you tell them to. If my plane is not competitive through Masters (flying Intermediate right now), it's because I'm not competitive through Masters, and thus a bigger plane isn't going to fix it.

Most of the damage to our (meaning earlier-career pattern pilots) is from landing, usually under power with some wind. Landing gear damage is usually pretty repairable.

I think the Osiris will give you a really great platform to learn powered flight and pattern, without breaking the bank. You should be able to compete through Sportsman and Intermediate with one, granted it would definitely be one of the smallest planes in Intermediate.

The plane was designed by Andrew Jesky, one of the pilots at the top of F3A competition. You can find a DVD that shows him assembling the plane, then flying it. I got one for X-mas (DVD, haven't yet watched it) but supposedly it's a great video to watch, especially if you have the plane.

Last, with a switch to electric power, there is a learning curve. You may blow out a speed control, battery, charger, motor, etc, and all this is less costly with smaller planes.

And of course, this is just my personal and humble opinion

Another good option is the SebArt Wind 50. Same size as the Osiris and both fly very well. Chris Moon at F3A unlimited has the full power systems for them as well which you can buy.

Arch

Flown a local guys Wind 50, had an Angel 50(sold after several hundred flights), and now only own an Osiris (40 flights). All three will fly nicely on the A50 12S, 16X10 prop, on a 5S 5000ma setup. Of the three the Osiris in red is easier to see in the air.

I gotta second the Wind 50. Granted, I haven't seen the Osiris fly, but I watched a Wind 50 flown in Intermediate in some pretty stiff winds, and the plane handled it very nicely.

You might consider starting with a foam aerobat that you can get your feet wet flying figures because balsa flies better but breaks better, too. In foam you could explore the Acromaster from Multiplex or Horizon's Carbon-Z Yak 54.

Hi,

I agree with the previous comment; I think that it would be a good idea to get your feet wet on a less expensive plane before you dive into it head first. As an option, you could visit a local club and see if you could get some stick time on a powered plane. I use a Phoenix simulator to "practice" in the winter time and I know that it makes me look much better than I am with a real plane. The sims are useful for certain things but at least in my experience, they seem easier to fly than the real planes.

Good luck,

Teo

There is a club near you called the Channel Island Condors. I haven't lived up there in a few years, so don't have recent experience with them, but remember that back in the late'90s there was considerable IMAC interest in that club. You may want to check them out.

Hello, Yes, I am aware of the Channel Islands Condors. They have a flying site near CSUCI (Cal State). I have not flown here, but I have seen them fly a lot of giant scale there.

Pattern planes in general will fly better, easier, smoother than just about any sport job. They don't fly particularly fast, although smaller airframes will seem like they fly fast. However, compared to a glider, sport jobs and pattern jobs will all fly faster, unless the glider is a slope racer.

The guys in the know (Archie Stafford, Joe Lochowski, couple others) gave you some good, practical pattern models from which to choose. Choose one, get the powerplant from Chris Moon at F3A Unlimited, and get going. You won't be disappointed. And take heed of Archie's advice on throws; the models will feel comfortable from the start when set-up as Archie says.

We've been flying Pattern models for many many years so you can't go wrong with the advice given.

Thanks for all the great information contained in this thread !

I've had a chance to do some browsing and it looks like the Sebart designs like the Winds 50 and perhaps 110 look like good candidates. I'm amazed at how far this hobby as advanced since when I was involved in it. I can buy a fairly high quality airframe for a (relatively) reasonable price rather than risk a glass/balsa wood covered foam model that I've spent months to build. There is something nostalgic about some of the models I dreamed about flying when I was a teen in the 70s, so I have a feeling that once I learn to fly well on an ARF type, I will end up building something.

I am fairly out in the bookdocks here without an instructor, so I am thinking that one of the aerobatic foam planes mentioned may not be a bad start before a larger investment in one of the more expensive planes.

I just got my Realflight 5.5 upgrade, so I have that to install/play with as well.

Again, thanks to all for your knowledge-sharing generosity ...



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If you get the Sebart 110, go with the stock/recommended setup. F3A Unlimited can get you setup with the complete package. There are relatively few motors that will fit in that plane, and those of us that have strayed from the Hacker have had issues. The plane flies great on that 8S setup. I am unfortunately too stubborn to listen to this advice[:@]