Pattern or IMAC
12-14-2011 | 06:30 PM
#26
Senior Member
RE: Pattern or IMAC
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie
Matt. I'm a little surprised by your comments. Obviously you are more pattern oriented then IMAC but I had hoped that you would be comparing apples to apples. To me it looks like you were comparing sport aerobatic airplanes to top level pattern airplanes. The two examples of IMAC airplanes you gave are pretty much bottom of the line. The Extreme Flight 300 is a bit better but still not up to snuff as a competitive IMAC airplane. Had you flown and well equipped and dialed in Carden, Dalton, CA, Comp ARF, Godfrey or Older Aeroworks kit 300L I think your impressions may be different. The other thing that I have a difficult time wrapping my head around is you saying that the IMAC sportsman sequence is less difficult to fly ( With an airplane that flew like a pig ) then the pattern sportsman sequence. The main reason for my last post though was the comments that there is less criteria for precision in IMAC then for pattern. IMO this is just not true. True IMAC has done away with the box but that has been replaced with the airspace utilization score. Center manuvers are downgraded for not being centered, rolls are supposed to be centered on thier lines, radii are supposed to be the same throughout a manuever. Take this example. Say we have a reverse sharks tooth ( Yes in IMAC each manuver does have a name ) with a 1/4 roll followed by an opposite direction 1 3/4 positive snap, pull to the downline, 2 of 4 point roll, push to invert level. How can all that be maintained on it's perspective lines and all rolling elements be centered without a good degree of precision? Now I will admit that to most observing IMAC can draw the same conclusion as you did. I contribute this to the fact that in the upper levels ( Advanced and Unlimited ) it can look that way just because it is quicker paced with alot less hesitation between manuvers and elements.
Matt. I'm a little surprised by your comments. Obviously you are more pattern oriented then IMAC but I had hoped that you would be comparing apples to apples. To me it looks like you were comparing sport aerobatic airplanes to top level pattern airplanes. The two examples of IMAC airplanes you gave are pretty much bottom of the line. The Extreme Flight 300 is a bit better but still not up to snuff as a competitive IMAC airplane. Had you flown and well equipped and dialed in Carden, Dalton, CA, Comp ARF, Godfrey or Older Aeroworks kit 300L I think your impressions may be different. The other thing that I have a difficult time wrapping my head around is you saying that the IMAC sportsman sequence is less difficult to fly ( With an airplane that flew like a pig ) then the pattern sportsman sequence. The main reason for my last post though was the comments that there is less criteria for precision in IMAC then for pattern. IMO this is just not true. True IMAC has done away with the box but that has been replaced with the airspace utilization score. Center manuvers are downgraded for not being centered, rolls are supposed to be centered on thier lines, radii are supposed to be the same throughout a manuever. Take this example. Say we have a reverse sharks tooth ( Yes in IMAC each manuver does have a name ) with a 1/4 roll followed by an opposite direction 1 3/4 positive snap, pull to the downline, 2 of 4 point roll, push to invert level. How can all that be maintained on it's perspective lines and all rolling elements be centered without a good degree of precision? Now I will admit that to most observing IMAC can draw the same conclusion as you did. I contribute this to the fact that in the upper levels ( Advanced and Unlimited ) it can look that way just because it is quicker paced with alot less hesitation between manuvers and elements.
True most of my experience is in Pattern. No, the Pattern Sprtsman sequence is truly simple and can be flown well with a cub by an experienced pilot. No, back then I was flying expert I think. Or may have just moved to Masters, don't remember. It's been awhile and the model was a Summit 3 (or was it a Joker?)if I recall. As far as less criteria, my impression back then was that there was less emphasis on precision in IMAC. Today, I don't really know. If the emphasis has increased, I welcome it. Great!!
Of course, Pattern has always been about precision
12-14-2011 | 08:56 PM
#27
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From: Tracy,
CA
RE: Pattern or IMAC
That's a hard question to answer really.
What do you like? They are 2 different beasts. My recommendation is to get a roughly 2m imac plane and go to an imac contest and also go to a pattern contest. Maybe do a few till you see what suits you best. I think you will find either quite fun.. Sure, we want to push pattern on you, but you won't stay if you don't like it. So try both. Or at least attend both..
Pattern is expensive for top dollar birds. But so is Imac.. I choose to fly pattern because it not only challenges me, but it makes me a better, more precise 3d pilot and I enjoy it. Not saying Imac couldn't do that. We have different rules...
Chris
What do you like? They are 2 different beasts. My recommendation is to get a roughly 2m imac plane and go to an imac contest and also go to a pattern contest. Maybe do a few till you see what suits you best. I think you will find either quite fun.. Sure, we want to push pattern on you, but you won't stay if you don't like it. So try both. Or at least attend both..
Pattern is expensive for top dollar birds. But so is Imac.. I choose to fly pattern because it not only challenges me, but it makes me a better, more precise 3d pilot and I enjoy it. Not saying Imac couldn't do that. We have different rules...
Chris
12-15-2011 | 07:43 AM
#29
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From: Johns Creek,
GA
RE: Pattern or IMAC
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield
Just a reminder that a high-end pattern plane is NOT NEEDED to WIN most contests.
There are a few planes for about $600 (airframe) out there that are capable of winning any local contest in the hands of a well practiced pilot.
Just a reminder that a high-end pattern plane is NOT NEEDED to WIN most contests.
There are a few planes for about $600 (airframe) out there that are capable of winning any local contest in the hands of a well practiced pilot.
there are several Invitational pilots that are flying ARF's in competition.
12-15-2011 | 07:59 AM
#30
Senior Member
RE: Pattern or IMAC
ORIGINAL: patternflyer1
That's a hard question to answer really.
What do you like? They are 2 different beasts. My recommendation is to get a roughly 2m imac plane and go to an imac contest and also go to a pattern contest. Maybe do a few till you see what suits you best. I think you will find either quite fun.. Sure, we want to push pattern on you, but you won't stay if you don't like it. So try both. Or at least attend both..
Pattern is expensive for top dollar birds. But so is Imac.. I choose to fly pattern because it not only challenges me, but it makes me a better, more precise 3d pilot and I enjoy it. Not saying Imac couldn't do that. We have different rules...
Chris
That's a hard question to answer really.
What do you like? They are 2 different beasts. My recommendation is to get a roughly 2m imac plane and go to an imac contest and also go to a pattern contest. Maybe do a few till you see what suits you best. I think you will find either quite fun.. Sure, we want to push pattern on you, but you won't stay if you don't like it. So try both. Or at least attend both..
Pattern is expensive for top dollar birds. But so is Imac.. I choose to fly pattern because it not only challenges me, but it makes me a better, more precise 3d pilot and I enjoy it. Not saying Imac couldn't do that. We have different rules...
Chris
Of course the OP posted the question in the Pattern Forum. Curious what the responses would have been had the question been posted in the IMAC Forum.
Suggestion to the OP: post in IMAC
12-15-2011 | 08:57 AM
#31
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From: Randolph,
NJ
RE: Pattern or IMAC
The IMAC forum on RCU has tumbleweeds blowing through it. Might have a better chance of being seen on FG.</p>
ORIGINAL: MTK
What I find very interesting in such a thread is that the dyed in the wool pattern competitors have, in general, suggested that the OP try both disciplines and then make a decision. We have offered suggestions and recommendations based on our experience which is mostly Pattern based with some IMAC
Of course the OP posted the question in the Pattern Forum. Curious what the responses would have been had the question been posted in the IMAC Forum.
Suggestion to the OP: post in IMAC
ORIGINAL: patternflyer1
That's a hard question to answer really.
What do you like? They are 2 different beasts. My recommendation is to get a roughly 2m imac plane and go to an imac contest and also go to a pattern contest. Maybe do a few till you see what suits you best. I think you will find either quite fun.. Sure, we want to push pattern on you, but you won't stay if you don't like it. So try both. Or at least attend both..
Pattern is expensive for top dollar birds. But so is Imac.. I choose to fly pattern because it not only challenges me, but it makes me a better, more precise 3d pilot and I enjoy it. Not saying Imac couldn't do that. We have different rules...
Chris
That's a hard question to answer really.
What do you like? They are 2 different beasts. My recommendation is to get a roughly 2m imac plane and go to an imac contest and also go to a pattern contest. Maybe do a few till you see what suits you best. I think you will find either quite fun.. Sure, we want to push pattern on you, but you won't stay if you don't like it. So try both. Or at least attend both..
Pattern is expensive for top dollar birds. But so is Imac.. I choose to fly pattern because it not only challenges me, but it makes me a better, more precise 3d pilot and I enjoy it. Not saying Imac couldn't do that. We have different rules...
Chris
Of course the OP posted the question in the Pattern Forum. Curious what the responses would have been had the question been posted in the IMAC Forum.
Suggestion to the OP: post in IMAC
12-17-2011 | 02:18 PM
#32
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From: Houston,
TX
RE: Pattern or IMAC
ORIGINAL: wobblewobble
I am not sure what to start competing in. Which one is the best to start competing in?
I am not sure what to start competing in. Which one is the best to start competing in?
First: What kind of pilots are there where you fly. Are there any pilots that can help you out to learn and point you the right direction.
Second: If you want to compete which type of competions are there close to you.
If there are good pattern pilots that can help you out can competitions where you can go then I suggest pattern. Then on the other hand if there are not many pattern pilots but there are IMAC pilots and competions then I suggest IMAC.
Also what type of planes do you like and if you choose IMAC do yo have the means to transport the place (thinking on a 100cc or large plane, though a 30-50cc can get you started)?
Happy Landings
12-17-2011 | 08:32 PM
#33
RE: Pattern or IMAC
ORIGINAL: g_mkoch
First: What kind of pilots are there where you fly. Are there any pilots that can help you out to learn and point you the right direction.
Second: If you want to compete which type of competions are there close to you.
If there are good pattern pilots that can help you out can competitions where you can go then I suggest pattern. Then on the other hand if there are not many pattern pilots but there are IMAC pilots and competions then I suggest IMAC.
Also what type of planes do you like and if you choose IMAC do yo have the means to transport the place (thinking on a 100cc or large plane, though a 30-50cc can get you started)?
Happy Landings
ORIGINAL: wobblewobble
I am not sure what to start competing in. Which one is the best to start competing in?
I am not sure what to start competing in. Which one is the best to start competing in?
First: What kind of pilots are there where you fly. Are there any pilots that can help you out to learn and point you the right direction.
Second: If you want to compete which type of competions are there close to you.
If there are good pattern pilots that can help you out can competitions where you can go then I suggest pattern. Then on the other hand if there are not many pattern pilots but there are IMAC pilots and competions then I suggest IMAC.
Also what type of planes do you like and if you choose IMAC do yo have the means to transport the place (thinking on a 100cc or large plane, though a 30-50cc can get you started)?
Happy Landings
All good points. ANY plane is "legal" in beginner IMAC.
02-16-2012 | 04:10 PM
#35
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Pattern or IMAC
In my humble and unimportant opinion, IMAC is handcuffed by the archaic notion that their planes ought to only be doing the maneuvers
that real IAC planes do..... this was a founding concept of the genre.... but RC has sooooo outpaced full size planes.... IMHO...
that rigid constraint ought to be eliminated.....
the sequence of maneuvers ought to include whatever an RC plane can do .... example... Rolling Loops....
1 1/2 snaps from KE to KE..... not to mention judging criteria could be established for most of the
"3D" maneuvers.....
I will tip my hat to the pattern guys... they have more difficult and interesting sequences.... they don't
seem to rely upon more and more snaps as a means to distinguish the different classes....
boy.. I am gonna catch heat over this!!
lol
that real IAC planes do..... this was a founding concept of the genre.... but RC has sooooo outpaced full size planes.... IMHO...
that rigid constraint ought to be eliminated.....
the sequence of maneuvers ought to include whatever an RC plane can do .... example... Rolling Loops....
1 1/2 snaps from KE to KE..... not to mention judging criteria could be established for most of the
"3D" maneuvers.....
I will tip my hat to the pattern guys... they have more difficult and interesting sequences.... they don't
seem to rely upon more and more snaps as a means to distinguish the different classes....
boy.. I am gonna catch heat over this!!
lol
02-16-2012 | 09:18 PM
#36
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From: La Jolla, CA
RE: Pattern or IMAC
OK Mith, put your Nomex underware. LOL!
There are a whole bunch of new manuvers that will be showing up in IMAC next year. You will like them. AT an IMAC contest you can get your precision fix flying the sequences, and throw down some 3-D in the freestyle. Now you just have to stop having kids, and show up at some contests....
Seriously, for the original poster the best advice I can give is this.
I fly some of both Pattern and IMAC. Both will make you a better pilot. I find that the skills you will learn in either will translate to both sports very well. I cannot say one is more difficult, or better than the other. Each has it's strong points. The costs when all things like equipment, travel, and other things will be about the same in the long run.
Iike most hobbies it will come down to who you fly with. The friendships are a very important part of the sport. Out on the West Coast we are lucky to have a super group of guys in both sports. Take a look around your area, see which sport has the most participation from local flyers, and start there.
Most of all HAVE FUN!!!!!
