How many years do you stay at each class and why
01-03-2012 | 09:35 AM
#1
How many years do you stay at each class and why
I wonder how people decide the number years to stay in each class. Seems there are a number of factors involved, such as the amount of time, money for planes, fuel, equipment, number of contest wins, and the progress toward your goal in your pattern flying, etc.
For myself, one year in Sportsman, one year so far in Intermediate. Plan to stay in Intemediate one more season to make things right.
For myself, one year in Sportsman, one year so far in Intermediate. Plan to stay in Intemediate one more season to make things right.
01-03-2012 | 11:31 AM
#2
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From: Aurora,
OH
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
This will sound sort of stupid, but the bottom line is... it depends on your goals.
Everyone's goal is to have fun. But what is "fun" for one person is different for another. Fun for me has changed over the years. When I was younger, fun was being competitive. That meant learning everything there was to learn at each level. BY DEFINITION, that means flying in a class until you're winning. It's not just learning the maneuvers, but learning how to win. It's being prepared, mechanically, mentally, etc. It's learning the maneuvers, but it's also learning the presentation. Learning what scores. Learning to calm your nerves. Learning ALL conditions... You get the idea.
Now... 20 years later, FUN is still being competitive, but beating Andrew isn't in the cards, so fun is also learning new things, trying new equipment, improving every season, and socializing with now life long friends who share my love of this hobby.
Long answer to a short question. But if your goal is to be competitive, than I would suggest not moving up until you're winning consistently in your region, and are "in the hunt" at the nats. Else there is clearly still something to learn in that class.
Everyone's goal is to have fun. But what is "fun" for one person is different for another. Fun for me has changed over the years. When I was younger, fun was being competitive. That meant learning everything there was to learn at each level. BY DEFINITION, that means flying in a class until you're winning. It's not just learning the maneuvers, but learning how to win. It's being prepared, mechanically, mentally, etc. It's learning the maneuvers, but it's also learning the presentation. Learning what scores. Learning to calm your nerves. Learning ALL conditions... You get the idea.
Now... 20 years later, FUN is still being competitive, but beating Andrew isn't in the cards, so fun is also learning new things, trying new equipment, improving every season, and socializing with now life long friends who share my love of this hobby.
Long answer to a short question. But if your goal is to be competitive, than I would suggest not moving up until you're winning consistently in your region, and are "in the hunt" at the nats. Else there is clearly still something to learn in that class.
01-03-2012 | 11:39 AM
#3
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From: Bolivia, NC
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
ORIGINAL: ArchNemesis
This will sound sort of stupid, but the bottom line is... it depends on your goals.
Everyone's goal is to have fun. But what is ''fun'' for one person is different for another. Fun for me has changed over the years. When I was younger, fun was being competitive. That meant learning everything there was to learn at each level. BY DEFINITION, that means flying in a class until you're winning. It's not just learning the maneuvers, but learning how to win. It's being prepared, mechanically, mentally, etc. It's learning the maneuvers, but it's also learning the presentation. Learning what scores. Learning to calm your nerves. Learning ALL conditions... You get the idea.
Now... 20 years later, FUN is still being competitive, but beating Andrew isn't in the cards, so fun is also learning new things, trying new equipment, improving every season, and socializing with now life long friends who share my love of this hobby.
Long answer to a short question. But if your goal is to be competitive, than I would suggest not moving up until you're winning consistently in your region, and are ''in the hunt'' at the nats. Else there is clearly still something to learn in that class.
This will sound sort of stupid, but the bottom line is... it depends on your goals.
Everyone's goal is to have fun. But what is ''fun'' for one person is different for another. Fun for me has changed over the years. When I was younger, fun was being competitive. That meant learning everything there was to learn at each level. BY DEFINITION, that means flying in a class until you're winning. It's not just learning the maneuvers, but learning how to win. It's being prepared, mechanically, mentally, etc. It's learning the maneuvers, but it's also learning the presentation. Learning what scores. Learning to calm your nerves. Learning ALL conditions... You get the idea.
Now... 20 years later, FUN is still being competitive, but beating Andrew isn't in the cards, so fun is also learning new things, trying new equipment, improving every season, and socializing with now life long friends who share my love of this hobby.
Long answer to a short question. But if your goal is to be competitive, than I would suggest not moving up until you're winning consistently in your region, and are ''in the hunt'' at the nats. Else there is clearly still something to learn in that class.
01-03-2012 | 05:02 PM
#4
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
Well thanks for the reply. I was thinking to devote this forum to gather data on how many years (on average) one needs to stay in one class.
Even though it depends on one's capability to fly well etc, it is my observation that there are few people competing in the two lower classes than in the upper classes. This is true for the number of competitions I went in 2010 and 2011. On the other hand, I remember seeing the same group of people in the upper classes for a couple of years.
Maybe the following is true?
sportsman: 1 year
immediate: 1-2 years
advanced: 3-5 years
Master: 4-<n> years
Even though it depends on one's capability to fly well etc, it is my observation that there are few people competing in the two lower classes than in the upper classes. This is true for the number of competitions I went in 2010 and 2011. On the other hand, I remember seeing the same group of people in the upper classes for a couple of years.
Maybe the following is true?
sportsman: 1 year
immediate: 1-2 years
advanced: 3-5 years
Master: 4-<n> years
01-03-2012 | 05:15 PM
#5
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
Something else that contributes to the decision on advancement is the level of competition you may experience at the local level. If there isn't much competition and you are winning, that doesn't mean you are ready for the next class. Unfortunately, that is just the nature of localized competition. You could be winning every contest in your area and go to another area or the Nats and get slaughtered. So, don't assume you are 'ready' because you are winning.... So, if that is what is happening with you, I would suggest you try to attend some contests with stiff competition in your class and see how you do.
As ArchNemisis mentioned, it is all about having fun even if you are looking for someone to hand your head to you.
Woodie
As ArchNemisis mentioned, it is all about having fun even if you are looking for someone to hand your head to you.
Woodie
01-03-2012 | 05:27 PM
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From: Aurora,
OH
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
ok, so if you're looking for averages, it's still a wide range, but I would go for:
Sportsman - 1yr
Intermediate - 2-3yrs
Advanced - 2-4yrs
Masters - 2-life.
Come on up to D4. Last year we had several contests with 10 in Intermediate and 10 in Advanced. Top finishers in both finished top 5 at the Nats. Good classes.
Just don't advance too fast. Most people regret that. Winning in each class gets progressively harder and requires a new higher level of commitment. More practice, more dedication, better performing and more reliable equipment. The room for error shrinks quickly. Unfortunately we've made it very difficult (both procedurally and culturally) to move back if you make that mistake.
Sportsman - 1yr
Intermediate - 2-3yrs
Advanced - 2-4yrs
Masters - 2-life.
Come on up to D4. Last year we had several contests with 10 in Intermediate and 10 in Advanced. Top finishers in both finished top 5 at the Nats. Good classes.
Just don't advance too fast. Most people regret that. Winning in each class gets progressively harder and requires a new higher level of commitment. More practice, more dedication, better performing and more reliable equipment. The room for error shrinks quickly. Unfortunately we've made it very difficult (both procedurally and culturally) to move back if you make that mistake.
01-03-2012 | 05:28 PM
#7
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From: Issaquah,
WA
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
So far i have stayed in four out of the five classes for only one year, so one in sportsman, one in intermidiete, one in advanced, and one in fai. Because I fly with my dad, i have an excellent coach and I know fly with him in district 8. I didn't fly masters just because I wanted to compete with my dad and so we didn't have to memorize two completely different schedules.
01-03-2012 | 06:58 PM
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From: Ossining,
NY
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
ORIGINAL: Malydilnar
So far i have stayed in four out of the five classes for only one year, so one in sportsman, one in intermidiete, one in advanced, and one in fai. Because I fly with my dad, i have an excellent coach and I know fly with him in district 8. I didn't fly masters just because I wanted to compete with my dad and so we didn't have to memorize two completely different schedules.
So far i have stayed in four out of the five classes for only one year, so one in sportsman, one in intermidiete, one in advanced, and one in fai. Because I fly with my dad, i have an excellent coach and I know fly with him in district 8. I didn't fly masters just because I wanted to compete with my dad and so we didn't have to memorize two completely different schedules.
I am moving to Advanced after 1 in Sportsman and 2 in Intermediate simply because I'm not getting any younger and had better get moving if I ever want to fly Masters.
01-03-2012 | 07:25 PM
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From: Eugene, OR
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
You can go by average's, statistics or some poll taken... bottom line in my opinion is to stay in each class untill you are either a; getting bored with your current class and/or are comfortable and ready yourself to move up, or b; you are forced to move up because you are dominating every contest you go to in your current class.Iremember getting kicked out of sportsman when I was a teenager... by my friend, and CD of the Walker/Creswell EAC contest. Gave me that one friday to learn advanced.. Istill got second place
01-03-2012 | 08:17 PM
#10
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RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
For me, it was a matter of challenge. I flew 1 contest in Advanced, and just didn't find the maneuvers that challenging. So the next contest, I flew Masters. That gave me what I was looking for.
Same for IMAC. I flew my first contest in Advanced, won it by a LARGE margin, moved to Unlimited and never looked back.
The advice people have been giving you is solid. Go with what's FUN for you. This isn't an ego thing. There NO shame, or whatever from flying ANY class. If you enjoy flying Sportsman, by all means fly Sportsman. Don't feel like you have to move up for any reason other than you feel you're ready or want to.
Same for IMAC. I flew my first contest in Advanced, won it by a LARGE margin, moved to Unlimited and never looked back.
The advice people have been giving you is solid. Go with what's FUN for you. This isn't an ego thing. There NO shame, or whatever from flying ANY class. If you enjoy flying Sportsman, by all means fly Sportsman. Don't feel like you have to move up for any reason other than you feel you're ready or want to.
01-05-2012 | 07:40 AM
#11
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RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
About one year at novice/sportsman. Going on ten years in and out of intermediate. Without life getting in the way, I probably would be at least advanced by now, maybe masters. There are several I know who started after me that are masters now.
I moved from sportsman after my first and only win, mostly because I felt the routine wasn't challenging enough. My last contest I almost stepped back down to sportsman because I had been out for a few years, but toughed it out. I finished last out of five, but it was a solid group and no normalized scores under 3600, so I considered it a success.
I moved from sportsman after my first and only win, mostly because I felt the routine wasn't challenging enough. My last contest I almost stepped back down to sportsman because I had been out for a few years, but toughed it out. I finished last out of five, but it was a solid group and no normalized scores under 3600, so I considered it a success.
01-05-2012 | 08:37 PM
#12
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
Interesting. Just wonder how you guys know a good way to measure progress in your current class, objectively.
I could do so by looking at the personal raw scores from contests. But these can be from different judges.
Any other good ways, such as video taping, comments from the caller?
I could do so by looking at the personal raw scores from contests. But these can be from different judges.
Any other good ways, such as video taping, comments from the caller?
01-06-2012 | 05:52 AM
#13
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RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
I moved out of Sportsman after 2 short seasons, mostly because I was getting bored with it. Still had plenty to learn there though. I tried practicing Intermediate a few times during my last year flying Sportsman. It was a big challenge at first, but I found that I was making improvements really quickly. I think what pushed me into Intermediate was the rate at which I was getting comfortable with it.
Now there is really a lot for me to learn - timing, wind corrections, and more opportunities for rudder corrections.
I'm flying less these years with a new job and a committed relationship with a wonderful woman, so looking at maybe 3 contests a year (2-4). At that rate I imagine I'll be in this class for 3-4 years, at least.
Now there is really a lot for me to learn - timing, wind corrections, and more opportunities for rudder corrections.
I'm flying less these years with a new job and a committed relationship with a wonderful woman, so looking at maybe 3 contests a year (2-4). At that rate I imagine I'll be in this class for 3-4 years, at least.
01-06-2012 | 06:02 AM
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From: Ossining,
NY
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
Joe,
Try to get your significant other into flying or, at the very least, into being your caller and coaching your figures.
If you want to get her to go on the road with you to contests, the magic letters are "B&B". Any woman will go anywhere with you as long as it involves a stay at a Bed & Breakfast.
Try to get your significant other into flying or, at the very least, into being your caller and coaching your figures.
If you want to get her to go on the road with you to contests, the magic letters are "B&B". Any woman will go anywhere with you as long as it involves a stay at a Bed & Breakfast.
01-06-2012 | 06:28 AM
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From: Ossining,
NY
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
ORIGINAL: nonstoprc
Interesting. Just wonder how you guys know a good way to measure progress in your current class, objectively.
I could do so by looking at the personal raw scores from contests. But these can be from different judges.
Any other good ways, such as video taping, comments from the caller?
Interesting. Just wonder how you guys know a good way to measure progress in your current class, objectively.
I could do so by looking at the personal raw scores from contests. But these can be from different judges.
Any other good ways, such as video taping, comments from the caller?
All these are good.
Look at the raw scores from the most experienced and toughest judges, on manuevers that you thought had no downgrades. This will better help you pick out the little problems.
Then look at the score sheets from each round to see which maneuvers you consistently received low scores from all judges.
I like video. I think I learn a lot from watching videos of really good pilots flying Pattern.
01-06-2012 | 10:06 AM
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From: Issaquah,
WA
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
I move up when people stop watching and find my flying boring and unexciting. That tells me that I'm flying the sequance right
01-06-2012 | 09:20 PM
#17
RE: How many years do you stay at each class and why
It was an easy transition for me from sportsman to intermediate. I was able to fly the whole sequence after a couple of practice flights. The difficult part is to score 8 and up pts for every maneuver in the intermediate class in a contest.
