Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
09-03-2012 | 05:09 PM
#1
Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
Hi Everyone,
I'm going to do a build thread of my Integral, for fun, and for a place for anyone to learn or offer advice. I am really excited about this for a few reasons - to take my time and enjoy building a sweet airplane, the fact that I got the airplane I wanted (Thanks Bob and Verne!!), and it is my first 2M airplane. I really have enjoyed everything about this hobby and look forward to so much more to come in the future.
So he plan is to start mostly stock - I have a set of foam cores that I will build afterward, hopefully to play with the wing angles and trimming. I may add wing adjusters to the stock wings at some point, but for now the plan is to build it straight and stock.
A few things: 1) of course the weight of the wings - both wings weigh more than the plane. The foam cores should be lighter. 2) the gear - these are stock gear but really seem pretty flexible. They are also lighter than others have posted. I know comp arf has 'new' gear they advertise with the valiant that is supposed to be light, and flex enough to avoid fuse damage. Not sure if these are that gear, but I will be replacing with Graphtech anyway for the extra height and to make it look the way I want. 3) I have nylon replacement gears for all the servos, though will likely leave the metal output gear on the rudder. I got the PBG wing tube which is longer and still ~24g lighter.
Here are the weights:
Fuse 735
Chin Cowl 79
Canopy 86
Left Wing 403
Right Wing 412
Rudder 63
Left Elevator 120
Right Elevator 120
Rudder Rod 10
Balsa Strips 4
Wheel Pants 32
Hardware Pack 70
Stab Rod 6
Wing Tube 86 PGB Tube: 64g -24g
Stab Tube 13
Servo Tray 23
9411 Servo 44
8411 Servo 62
3517 Servo (mg) 32 - I have nylon gears to replace
3517 servo 28
Tail Wheel 10 (3DHS small carbon)
ESC 124 (ICE HV80, with wires and connectors)
Rx 15
Regulator 13
Regulator 13
Right Gear 57
Left Gear 56
Motor (Advance) 580
Prop Adapter 20
Starting Weight: 3316g Current Weight: 3292g
I'm going to do a build thread of my Integral, for fun, and for a place for anyone to learn or offer advice. I am really excited about this for a few reasons - to take my time and enjoy building a sweet airplane, the fact that I got the airplane I wanted (Thanks Bob and Verne!!), and it is my first 2M airplane. I really have enjoyed everything about this hobby and look forward to so much more to come in the future.
So he plan is to start mostly stock - I have a set of foam cores that I will build afterward, hopefully to play with the wing angles and trimming. I may add wing adjusters to the stock wings at some point, but for now the plan is to build it straight and stock.
A few things: 1) of course the weight of the wings - both wings weigh more than the plane. The foam cores should be lighter. 2) the gear - these are stock gear but really seem pretty flexible. They are also lighter than others have posted. I know comp arf has 'new' gear they advertise with the valiant that is supposed to be light, and flex enough to avoid fuse damage. Not sure if these are that gear, but I will be replacing with Graphtech anyway for the extra height and to make it look the way I want. 3) I have nylon replacement gears for all the servos, though will likely leave the metal output gear on the rudder. I got the PBG wing tube which is longer and still ~24g lighter.
Here are the weights:
Fuse 735
Chin Cowl 79
Canopy 86
Left Wing 403
Right Wing 412
Rudder 63
Left Elevator 120
Right Elevator 120
Rudder Rod 10
Balsa Strips 4
Wheel Pants 32
Hardware Pack 70
Stab Rod 6
Wing Tube 86 PGB Tube: 64g -24g
Stab Tube 13
Servo Tray 23
9411 Servo 44
8411 Servo 62
3517 Servo (mg) 32 - I have nylon gears to replace
3517 servo 28
Tail Wheel 10 (3DHS small carbon)
ESC 124 (ICE HV80, with wires and connectors)
Rx 15
Regulator 13
Regulator 13
Right Gear 57
Left Gear 56
Motor (Advance) 580
Prop Adapter 20
Starting Weight: 3316g Current Weight: 3292g
09-03-2012 | 05:16 PM
#2
RE: Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
The first step is to install the gear. I'm still waiting for a custom set from Graphtech (like Bolly long with the full sweep), so I started on planning the motor. I chose the Plettenberg Advance 30-10 for the combination of weight (no firewall needed), efficiency, and low maintenance. I was seriously considering the Neu F3A but felt that I would benefit more from less maintenance at this stage of my pattern ability. The advance is a nose-ring mount. I am deciding between aircraft ply and carbon, with ply spacers. I laminated some layers of balsa to help define the perimeter, and created the mounts on Creo Elements (freeware CAD program) using some measurements and the motor technical drawing. I'm going to have carbon and ply mounts made and will decide based on apparent weight and strength.
Here are the mount, plywood spacer, and rear mount:
Here are the mount, plywood spacer, and rear mount:
09-03-2012 | 07:54 PM
#3
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Ossining,
NY
RE: Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
Hi, Joe:
Since you are "rolling your own" motor mount, you could just dispense with the ply spacer and make a nosering that fits flush with the fuse from the outset.
Could be a bit tricky getting the right thrust just right, but that's what CAD is for, eh??
For the Caelestia I used the F3AU mount for the Advance, with significantly minimized spacers because it seemed to me that a full-circumference spacer was not necessary when used in concert with a rear mount to further stabilize the motor, especially since it's and inrunner with less rotating mass. About 150 flights thus far and my theory is holding up.
Since you are "rolling your own" motor mount, you could just dispense with the ply spacer and make a nosering that fits flush with the fuse from the outset.
Could be a bit tricky getting the right thrust just right, but that's what CAD is for, eh??
For the Caelestia I used the F3AU mount for the Advance, with significantly minimized spacers because it seemed to me that a full-circumference spacer was not necessary when used in concert with a rear mount to further stabilize the motor, especially since it's and inrunner with less rotating mass. About 150 flights thus far and my theory is holding up.
09-03-2012 | 08:26 PM
#4
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Livonia,
MI
RE: Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
Joe,
Normally, when converting JR servos to the SA versions, the metal output gear is left in place in all the servos. I'm not sure there would be a problem replacing it with nylon, but I've never heard of anyone doing it that way.
Verne
Normally, when converting JR servos to the SA versions, the metal output gear is left in place in all the servos. I'm not sure there would be a problem replacing it with nylon, but I've never heard of anyone doing it that way.
Verne
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield
Hi Everyone,
I'm going to do a build thread of my Integral, for fun, and for a place for anyone to learn or offer advice. I am really excited about this for a few reasons - to take my time and enjoy building a sweet airplane, the fact that I got the airplane I wanted (Thanks Bob and Verne!!), and it is my first 2M airplane. I really have enjoyed everything about this hobby and look forward to so much more to come in the future.
So he plan is to start mostly stock - I have a set of foam cores that I will build afterward, hopefully to play with the wing angles and trimming. I may add wing adjusters to the stock wings at some point, but for now the plan is to build it straight and stock.
A few things: 1) of course the weight of the wings - both wings weigh more than the plane. The foam cores should be lighter. 2) the gear - these are stock gear but really seem pretty flexible. They are also lighter than others have posted. I know comp arf has 'new' gear they advertise with the valiant that is supposed to be light, and flex enough to avoid fuse damage. Not sure if these are that gear, but I will be replacing with Graphtech anyway for the extra height and to make it look the way I want. 3) I have nylon replacement gears for all the servos, though will likely leave the metal output gear on the rudder. I got the PBG wing tube which is longer and still ~24g lighter.
Here are the weights:
Fuse 735
Chin Cowl 79
Canopy 86
Left Wing 403
Right Wing 412
Rudder 63
Left Elevator 120
Right Elevator 120
Rudder Rod 10
Balsa Strips 4
Wheel Pants 32
Hardware Pack 70
Stab Rod 6
Wing Tube 86 PGB Tube: 64g -24g
Stab Tube 13
Servo Tray 23
9411 Servo 44
8411 Servo 62
3517 Servo (mg) 32 - I have nylon gears to replace
3517 servo 28
Tail Wheel 10 (3DHS small carbon)
ESC 124 (ICE HV80, with wires and connectors)
Rx 15
Regulator 13
Regulator 13
Right Gear 57
Left Gear 56
Motor (Advance) 580
Prop Adapter 20
Starting Weight: 3316g Current Weight: 3292g
Hi Everyone,
I'm going to do a build thread of my Integral, for fun, and for a place for anyone to learn or offer advice. I am really excited about this for a few reasons - to take my time and enjoy building a sweet airplane, the fact that I got the airplane I wanted (Thanks Bob and Verne!!), and it is my first 2M airplane. I really have enjoyed everything about this hobby and look forward to so much more to come in the future.
So he plan is to start mostly stock - I have a set of foam cores that I will build afterward, hopefully to play with the wing angles and trimming. I may add wing adjusters to the stock wings at some point, but for now the plan is to build it straight and stock.
A few things: 1) of course the weight of the wings - both wings weigh more than the plane. The foam cores should be lighter. 2) the gear - these are stock gear but really seem pretty flexible. They are also lighter than others have posted. I know comp arf has 'new' gear they advertise with the valiant that is supposed to be light, and flex enough to avoid fuse damage. Not sure if these are that gear, but I will be replacing with Graphtech anyway for the extra height and to make it look the way I want. 3) I have nylon replacement gears for all the servos, though will likely leave the metal output gear on the rudder. I got the PBG wing tube which is longer and still ~24g lighter.
Here are the weights:
Fuse 735
Chin Cowl 79
Canopy 86
Left Wing 403
Right Wing 412
Rudder 63
Left Elevator 120
Right Elevator 120
Rudder Rod 10
Balsa Strips 4
Wheel Pants 32
Hardware Pack 70
Stab Rod 6
Wing Tube 86 PGB Tube: 64g -24g
Stab Tube 13
Servo Tray 23
9411 Servo 44
8411 Servo 62
3517 Servo (mg) 32 - I have nylon gears to replace
3517 servo 28
Tail Wheel 10 (3DHS small carbon)
ESC 124 (ICE HV80, with wires and connectors)
Rx 15
Regulator 13
Regulator 13
Right Gear 57
Left Gear 56
Motor (Advance) 580
Prop Adapter 20
Starting Weight: 3316g Current Weight: 3292g
09-03-2012 | 10:50 PM
#5
My Feedback: (182)
RE: Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
Verne,
I believe the reason for not replacing the output gear is the bearing. I tried to remove the bearing once, but decided not to after a few try. Didn't want to crush or dent a gear tooth.
Those bearings aren't easy to pull. I believe they are machine fit.
Joe,
Did you order a custom made gear or the tall new version?
Ihncheol
I believe the reason for not replacing the output gear is the bearing. I tried to remove the bearing once, but decided not to after a few try. Didn't want to crush or dent a gear tooth.
Those bearings aren't easy to pull. I believe they are machine fit.
Joe,
Did you order a custom made gear or the tall new version?
Ihncheol
09-04-2012 | 03:11 AM
#6
RE: Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
Bob, the plan was to laminate the spacers to the ply/carbon nose ring that comes pre-installed in the Integral. I was going to shape them so I could also glue to the fuse around the perimeter. However after posting this thread I thought about how fast I am going to eat up the weight margin I have, and started thinking about making things a little smaller/lighter. I will consider an optimized spacer. Since the nose ring is already installed, a recessed nose ring would end up sitting just behind it.
IP, I ordered the "Bolly Long" gear from Graphtech, but had an extra 3/4" sweep added in. I was looking at some similar planes at my last contest and thought the Bolly Long gave plenty of prop clearance.
I will probably leave the servo bearings alone
IP, I ordered the "Bolly Long" gear from Graphtech, but had an extra 3/4" sweep added in. I was looking at some similar planes at my last contest and thought the Bolly Long gave plenty of prop clearance.
I will probably leave the servo bearings alone
09-05-2012 | 07:08 AM
#7
RE: Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
Joe, why did you add 'sweep' to the new gear? Have flown the original gear on my Integral for several years and actually would like a gear with a little less sweep. Reason being, as you move the CG forward, you are taking weight off the tail wheel and it gets a bit difficult to turn around in a stiff cross wind. We do fly from paved runways so taxi back after a flight is normal. Grass field handling might be a different situation. You are also increasing the torsional load on the gear box as you move the wheel location toward the rear, so if you 'drop one in' on a rough landing, the twist on the fuselage gear box is amplified with the wheels moved to the rear.
Have had no issues with the original gear height, even running 21" props.
Woodie
Have had no issues with the original gear height, even running 21" props.
Woodie
09-05-2012 | 07:15 AM
#8
RE: Joe's Electric Integral Build Thread
Mostly for looks. I have seen and talked to guys with the Bolly F3A Long and Bolly F3A Electric gear - both seem to work well and look great. I went with the same sweep as the Bolly Long gear, which has less sweep than the Electric.
Once I figure out a good way to quickly get pics from my phone to my PC, I will post some more pics. I am a little consumed with buying a house at the moment, hopefully this thread will pickup a little over the weekend.
Once I figure out a good way to quickly get pics from my phone to my PC, I will post some more pics. I am a little consumed with buying a house at the moment, hopefully this thread will pickup a little over the weekend.
