Hello All,

My Hydaway pulls out of a vertical dive nose up. If I follow the trim chart it says to reduce incidence. Should I do it at the stab or at the wing?
Also correct me if i'm wrong, reducing the incidence would mean that the leading edge of the wing or stab goes down, right?
If anybody is flying this model could you give me your incidence and cg settings to compare?

Thanks

John

Hello John,
First check that stab and wing are zero/zero. How is the upline vertical? Does it drift towards the canopy also? If so, then drop the leading edge of the wing about 1/2 degree. When changing wing incidence, pay loase attention to how the airplane flies. It should fly level, not the a Giles-202 which flies with that unattractive nose high attitude.

If the upline is solid, try moving the CG back a few millimeters at a time. Just about 5mm can correct the canopy pull because you will require a touch of down for straight and level which will solve the pull on the downlines. I prefer my airplanes a litle towards the rear, some prefer more forward.

Do not get too concerned with pitching in the knife edge. Simply trim that out on the radio. The verticals are far more important in aerodynamic tuning.

Regards and happy flying,
Mark

Hi Mark,
I'll try and see,

Thanks.

Hydeaway needs a little down elevator mix to the low throttle.

You are not going to adjust the wings to get it not pull. That's just the way it is....I flew my Hydeaway a ton spent much time trimming it.....It is a very good flying model but it needs that mix

It takes about 4% mix on elevator to low throttle and it will fly great.....

Pitch mix is a little up elevator mix...and a little roll mix....for the knife edges

I moved my wing location to reduce the pitch and roll mixing so I don't know if you built it per plans or not ...I did not so I can't tell you how much it needs for the knife edge mixing...

I do know that Of all the ones I have seen, and flown which is several of them they all needed the dn elevator on low throttle mix....Many guys did not use it but they all needed it.

Troy

Thanks for your input Troy,
I'll try the throttle to elev mix next week, I built the plane per plans. I will get to the knive edge mixing on my next flights.

John

Hi John,

my plane c.g is 18 cm from leading edge and incidence wing/stab : zero/zero
flies great...

happy landings
oscar

Hello Oscar,
Thanks, but I think you plane is a Hydeout, mine is a Hydaway different design. I dont think that our settings will be the same.
Check ou the pic of the Hydaway below.


John

Hi John,

yes you right..I only want to say that hydeout wing/stab incidence is zero to zero...
which also might be helpful for you.. by the way your plane looks GREAT...nice finishing happy landings...
oscar

Looking at the trim chart on the NSRCA page, I see that a pull out to the canopy needs an increase in wing or stab incidence. Sound like you are going the wrong way reducing the incidence. You should be raising the LE of the wing(increasing lift and AOA) to allow some down elevator trim to be applied in level flight. Then in the Poweroff vertical downline your newly applied down elevator trim will help tuck the nose under and reduce the pullout to the canopy(nose)

In your case, you are decreasing incidence in the wing, your reducing lift in the wing (lower AOA), requiring more up elevator to maintain level flight. You poweroff vertical downline now has more up trim in the elevator, compounding your problem.

All this is assuming your CG is close to the proper range.

I could be wrong in all this as well, but thats the way I was taught to set incidence in wings and stabs. If I am wrong someone please correct me. I usually spend days going on way then the other to get a plane trimmed out, and when I finally get it right, I dont know where I started or ended, just that I'm satisfied.

If you read several trim charts you will find that the incidence section on these charts are different. The one published in the 1997 KFactor had the incidence setting section reversed. I know that because it caused me some problems when trying to use it. I finally abandoned it, and went back to doing it the way I was taught to trim, and all was well.

On the Hydeaway...you get a couple issues.

The wing should be set basically zero the canopy frame. This is the zero line. I found it flew better with a little positive to that about 1/2 deg.

GW is correct positive in the wing will help the pull to the canopy on the downlines...but what happens on the Hydeaway is that before you start to get things dialed in the extra positive in the wing will act like putting more down thrust in the motor. Remember they all work together. So as you move the wing up positive you get too much down thrust and it pushes out of verticals. So you adjust the motor to give less down thrust. Then you end up right back where you were and it pulls on the downlines so you dial the wing more positive and this acts like more down thrust. Ends up being an endless battle.

I've been there and done that.....Like I said before I'm not proud of the fact it takes a little down elevator mix at low throttle and if I had my druthers I would not have the mix...But it helps and is less invasive than the push to the belly on the vertical. And I flew the mix for about 500 flights. After that amount of time I forgot it was there. It became a non-issue. Its so little and I had it become active 2 clicks above idle on the throttle stick.

You can trim it out....... I did it. But the trade off was a less desirable problem.

My suggestion to you is mix it out. Stick the CG at about 195mm from the LE which is a little forward (5mm come on less than 1/4")of the Chip location and fly it.

That's what I did....I raised my wing vertical in the fuse location to eliminate some of the pitch and roll couple mixing needed in the model It worked and solved most of it. The amount of mix I was using was very small. Overall the Hydeaway is a very good flying model. There are some things it does really well. When you fly it slow its a very good model. Gets nervous in the air and doesn't lock on as well when you speed it up. This is where I felt it was not as good a model as some others was in the wind.

In calm conditions when I was flying well and really on it...I felt it was like playing a video game point and shoot period...But as the winds came up or if I was struggling a little on the pilot side of the equation it was not as good.

Obviously its a good model, Chip got 3rd at the worlds with it. I flew mine to 3rd at the NATS. So it can fly very well. Its not a magic bullet but then again neither is the Partner, the Smaragd or a Focus....

Its just an Airplane...Its a tool to make pretty pictures in the sky. Any of the tools you use can be setup properly to get the job done. If you break your tool then go get another one. Everybody seems to be upgrading their computer or their car....A new model is just another tool to get the job done.

Troy

Hello,

I quess I messed up somewhere, and have been going the wrong way with my wings.
I could have sworn it said to reduce incidence.
Not to bad I'll just have to start all over again.
Troy thanks for your input I'm sure it will help me with trimming my Hydaway.

John