I have always prefered left rolling maneuvers. Hesitations, slow, circles and all of those 3D thingies. I want, however, to become very profficeint in all to the right. I'm hacking out twenty of so minutes per day on the simulator just trying to feel all four controls while I hold in the right aileron. Does anyone have any logical stepped methods other than time on sticks. Right snaps and point rolls are not really a problem because everything is done sequentially, less total coordination is required. It is the slows, circles, and harrier rolls that really screw my brain cells up.

At first, when coordinating all movements, I have trouble just in feeling up and down elevator. That has improved over a few days. But as I get my coordination better, I forget about aileron and my roll rate changes. I'll keep plugging away at it until it feels natural, but if anyone has a logical method I would love to hear it.

Regards,
Mark

i feel ok both ways but i like right better.......when i go left i have some trubble using rudder with it and some times i mess it up.

what helped me is just practicing knife edge in either directions i would slow it down and start a rolling harrier just using elevator and aielrons then just like in a knife edge give it some rudder on which side your rolling on and after a couple of trys you should get it down pat then practice using rudder in rolling circles and rolling loops after using some much rudder you will start making coordinated turns with rudder and fly 3-d needs you to work on all the sticks throttle rudder elevator and ailerion and maybe flippin some switches

I had this same problem for a long time. I always preferred left rolling.
Start right rolling manuevers and in the beginning just use elevators and no rudder. Keep the roll rate slow and constant so you can clearly see what is going on - give some extra elevator correction so model does not dive. Dont worry on the changes in the roll rate. After getting used to this, start using the rudder and control the roll rate.
I found this the best way.....

Hi Mark,

I'm hitting this point at the same time you are. I habitually roll right, regardless of maneuver direction.

Instead of predetermining which direction to roll, take a different approach. Usually, any rolling segment precluded by straight and level flight, and this entry usually has some rudder correction needed to maintain heading. **** Roll the direction allows for the already input rudder correction for heading, to become top rudder****

Benefits: No-bobble entry into the roll, maintain heading better during roll. Automatic decision that works with the heading corrections already in place.

Why learn to roll both directions? Because 1 maneuver requires it? How do you know which direction to roll and when? I think the real benefit is by rolling the direction that corresponds to maintaining heading in some type of wind condition, you control heading better during the rolling maneuver. The decision is made because usually, you already have some rudder input, so roll the direction that makes this input already in place top-rudder.

TRY IT!!
Jim W.

Mark,

I've always felt most comfortable rolling towards me, regardless of direction. I've found the best way to get over it is just to fly and force yourself to do what's uncomfortable. Slowly it will come together and you'll get it.

Out of the MANY methods I've tried, by far the best is closest to what Woodward suggests. FORCE yourself to roll opposite-ly from what you have the "habit" to do...what may help also is to mentally visualize YOURSELF in the cockpit....if you already fly with that frame of reference built-in, the rudder corrections are a BIT easier. Not a LOT; just some.

I've found the simulator - for me - was of NO practical use learning to "roll the OTHER way"....had to do it at the field, and I still have a LONG way to go...

Hey Mark,
I'm guessing you fly mode 1? Unfortunately I haven't found anything other than getting out and doing it to make a difference. Using the sim helps. I'll got out and fly the whole pattern doing all the rolls to the left including the rolls inside a manuever. I like to roll to the right and it was hard, really hard at first. To me what was more important than the rolls was learning to snap and spin in different directions. I was at a point where I would force the airplane to do something it didn't want to do. Can't fly pattern that way!

For your practice flights, for every flight where you roll the way you want to, fly 2 more lifghts where you roll the other way. Do this from left to right and vice versa. You will soon find it to be almost natural.

Cheers

Phil

I have tried rolling right and left and do good until I get to the last 1/4 of the maneuver. The first 3/4 seems good but the last 1/4 is bad. I think itis because I forget to get out of the rudder on both rolls.

Mark,

You're a way better pilot than me, but the only advise I can give you is to practice only with right rolling maneuvers.
I have the same problem, in rolling circles I prefer a right turn when rolling left and a left turn when rolling right. So I practice a lot on the other directions. Very frustrating in the beginning when it doesn't look so good but it gets better all the time. I'm not saying both directions are now going very well but it's getting better and better.
( My club-mates say I'm crazy when I'm doing flights of 10 min. constantly flying rolling circles!)
But I'm not a competition flyer like you, so I wondering if I'm the right person to give you advise...

Hey guys,

I thought we pattern pilots always rolled into the wind? So we should be getting good practice both right and left. Or maybe that's just the field I fly. I can imagine some fields will have the wind habitually blowing in or out. Just curious.

Cheers,
Ken

You obviously know what to do when you roll to the left, so its just a matter of reminding your brain to tell your fingers about it.

Maybe you need a shock to get everything going. Often we practice so much that we are just practicing our mistakes over and over. You might need to change something physical to get you to chage the way you roll. If you don't already use one, try switching to a tray for a few weeks, change the way you hold the sticks, maybe change the length of your sticks. These will serve as physical reminders about what your fingers are doing wrong.

Good luck

Mark,

Just fly P-05...it will teach you to roll left and right...

2/4pt rolls reversed
4/8pt, opposite slow roll fro Inverted
3/4 slow rolls reversed from Inverted.

And if that doesn't help ya...

Go to the F-05

3/4pt rolls reversed from Inverted

Rolling circle 3 rolls reversed-- 1st roll outside ( this one is a kicker as left to right flight direction means one roll direction but R to L flight direction reverses it....FUN eh?

Reverse Knife Edge from Upright, Exit inverted
45 down 2/4pt Opposite Negative Snap.


Each sequence has lots of opposing rolls. Just fly that it will ingrain you into rolling both ways.

If you really want to know how to learn both directions...2 Rolls Reversed. Do a 100 of them 1st roll to the right and then do a 100 more 1st roll to the left. And I don't mean aileron the rolls over like a Newbie doing his 3 horror rolls. Do them slow like just a little bit faster than a slow roll. Just do Humpty's on both ends and 2 rolls reversed in the middle upwind and downwind....It will take about 10-12 flights maybe to get in your 200 rolls each way....

Do your poor roll direction as the first roll of the 2 roll combo....then go the other way....Oh and then fly an entire flight of rolling your bad direction except when reversed rolls are called....So on your verticals with rolls roll right...and on the Immelmans and Split S's roll Right...Hour Glasses roll right....Assuming you right roll is the poor direction.

If you do another 100 flights of always rolling to your poor side you won't care which direction to roll...I promise you!

My poor rolling direction is to the left. When I learned to slow roll I had a poorly built model....And or I had a very poorly trimmed model too.

Left slow rolls had so much coupling the roll looked like I was flying F-05 with the rolling circle and the Rolling loop.

So I learned everything to the right very well...I flew everything to the right until flying AMA Masters class in 98' with the 2 rolls Opposite direction....By 99' I had that one Semi mastered...So I went to F3A in 00' and got the 2 rolls reversed from inverted n the F-01....Still until last season 2002 I was still struggling with rolling left...So I spent about 2 months flying everything to the left....It solved that problem....I have others but rolling tends to be one of my better skills now.

My advice...

Worth what you paid for it.


Troy

Oh forgot to add...The center of the Maneuver 2 Rolls Reversed is the center pole...and no cheating with a pause in the middle....Its roll 360 degs to the right wing comes down and hits level and then immediately as it no level flight, no pause, wing tip hits a spring board and rolls 360degs the other way....


Then you can do this same thing with 3 rolls....R-L-R and L-R-L don't worry about the box on that last one just stretch those rolls out. Make them almost slow rolls...just a little faster...Rudder transitions are the key on this practice....

I always remember Upright get opposite rudder, inverted gets same rudder....Takes some thinking...But you after a while it becomes natural....Besides Flying precision is not like a mechanical task....The inputs are never identically the same....You have to watch the model and react to it...Change the heading of the roll to fight wind, or correct a line...

Some guys practice for years and try to figure out mechically where to stick the gimbal....It don't work that way....Its more thinking and watching the model and reacting to minor little deviations before they become bigger deviations.

This stuff is Great!

Enjoy!

Merci to all.

Troy,
It is precisely the F-05 that has me ultramotivated. Also, as I plan to get into F3A-X, there is almost always a rolling circle. Great and good for me if the wind is correct for a left roll circle, but, try as I may, I still cannot convince mother nature to abide by my favor time after time.

Quite surprising to me, the time on the simulator is starting to work. I have actually been doing harrier rolls to the right to start the practice session. Here is my logic and process.

1. I start the harrier rolls which allows me to burry the aileron to the right. This removes the sensitivity for my right thumb and allows me to concentrate on elevator and rudder.

2. After the timing gets acceptable and the harrier smooths out, I start to form the harrier into a circle which changes the timing on elevator but still has the aileron burried.

3. Once I can hold a reasonable alititude, I bring my right index finger to the stick (I do fly Mode II by the way, not the Mode I) and start to slowly release the aileron. The right index finger allows more feel for constant right stick position. I have been able to eek out a few margnially acceptable circles and am actually starting to feel the coordination.

4. After a few minutes of that, I then start some straight line slow rolls. It takes lots of concentration because the slightest untimed input immediately shows deviation in flight path.

So far I have only given about one week to this form of practice and it is all on the simulator, but slowly and surely my fingers are starting to coordinate with my hands and eyes. It is quite fatiguing to practice and I quickly become tired, but I can see that repitition is going to pay off here. Once I can feel the sticks I am confident that applying this to actual flying will be no problem. I actually find that my Majestic and Enigma are easier to fly than the G2 simulator which, for all of its "real physics" does not have a proper response as does the 2 meter birds.

Lastly, although it has been pattern that has improved my 3D, I am pleased to find that 3D (the harrier roll) is actually adding to my proficeincy in pattern.

Regards AND HAPPY THANKGIVING!!! Mmmmmm, turkey!!!

Mark

Hmm, so as I am just starting out, I guess it would be wise to practice everything in both directions?
I already have a tendancy to roll left, I have trouble with the elevator when rolling right, I can get the rudder going ok though.
More stick time and mental practice needed.

...Sorry guys I keep forgetting when surfing under my Father inlaws RCU name....

Visiting and using his computer.....My comments are down below for what they are worth.

Troy Newman

While its ideal to learn both ways...I would suggest that you have tons of stuff to learn about positioning and such...It might be better to concentrate on your better direction until its mastered or almost...then when you have other things going right like timing and throttle and the proper inputs then play with the other roll direction way.

Overload is common and you can't fix it all at once....I would say the geometry and positioning of the maneuvers is #1 on the list...I would not worry about how smooth they are if the Geometry is not correct.

My biggest help to younger guys flying pattern is helping to get the geometry correct...I too struggle with it....But geometry is the biggest problem with 99% of the flying out there I see....

Once the geometry is good the smooth comes with practice and a good setup...but geometry is the biggest killer.....maybe its because I try to work hard on my geometry...I'm not the smoothest stick mixer...but I like to think I have good geometry.

This is my opinion and mine alone. Don't overload you practice with too much...pick a problem and work on it....Mark was having trouble rolling right so he's going to work on it....

If you are just learning to do slow rolls and 4 pts that look good...it doesn't really matter the L or R roll what matters is learning the postioning and geometry of the roll and the inputs....

Hope this explains it a little

I think both directions is good, but you have to be able to do one direction first.
Troy