Anyone had inconsistant idle from ground to air with a dingo. Idle speeds up after in the air requiring me to always fiddle with the trim. Engine also seems to take a little while to spool down for landing. I do have great transition and power. Running the following:

Powermaster 30% DZ fuel
APC 17x12 or 16.5 x 12W
Tettra fuel tank with foam clunk
OS Type F plug
Needle about 1.75 turns out

I had to lein the pump out of the box to obtain good idle on the ground. Always Idles good before put in the air.

Thanks, Todd Schmidt

Hey todd I have that same problem with mine. Seems once it starts it idles about 2000, but then when it get warm the idle goes up. I wonder if the low end is too rich. I guess Todd that we could kill the engine before we bring it in to land --- except for those windy days.

Your Idle is too lean! If the motor is not dropping back into an idle in the air.

Richen the pump...Say 1/8-1/4 turn...Rich is IN on the pump...This is also a lean condition when the idle changes a bunch for the flight.

When the motor is cold from a start up it will idle what seems to be too low....it might even die on the ground if you have it that low. You need to warm it up before setting your idle trim. The DZ is dumping cold raw fuel in the head....if its cold meaning not warmed up to operating temp it will run like it is rich on the idle. I would say to avoid this idle condition and find out where you want it to be set run the motor at full power for about 30-40 secs on the ground...then set your trim position idle. This will make it more cosistent.


What I do it I have it set so that when it comes time to land I lower my trim 3 clicks. On take off the motor may be idling very very low and seem like it might die. It has not been a problem... I takes a little time to get the setup properly and figured out....I don't run it for a long time on the ground now before T.O because I know the mixture and the idle trim position is correct. And I just have a slightly higher idle in the air....This works very well.

Troy Newman

Thanks Troy, makes sense to me. I'll give it a try!! Hope everything is going good for you, have a great season!

Todd

Another option is that you can mix throttle with throttle and put it on a mix switch with about 5% at low throttle only.

I use this as a "threshold" option in case the plane is coming in too hot on the final leg. I keep it in reserve so that if I sense a high-idle at the end-of-flight-situation, or there is absolutely no head -wind. It is much easier than fiddling with a trim on final, low to the ground etc.

It works on both my YS's and OS's...

Eric.

Todd I did exactly what troy mentioned. I dialed in the pump to richen the low end and it worked!!!!! Idle is much better coming in than ever before

Robert, great to hear! I was out of town all weekend so didn't get to give it a try, Maybe tomorrow night! Todd

Okay, Turned the pump in 1/4 turn, ran and transitioned fine on the ground, took off, in the air about 1 minutes and she dies. Could not get it to start again. Came home and noticed fuel pouring out of the pipe when carrying the plane into the shop.
Any ideas???

Todd

Did you re-set the top end needle. You should have to....If you richen the pump it makes more pressure...meaning the needle valve must be leaned to get the mixture correct.

The needle valve should be around 1.25 to 1.5 turns open....after a little run time they settle out about 1 to 1-1/8th open....I have one motor that runs at about 1.5 turns...

If you didn't re-set the top end then you have it too rich. The motor has a flat spot in the mixture setting. Its about 1/2 turn where nothing much affects it. Say 1.75 to 1.25 you want to be on the lean side of this dead spot int he mixture or it will be too lean when you pull the motor to idle the raw fuel will put the plug out.

This is the first place I would start.

Next is what fuel, plug and prop are you using?
go to Cool Power 30% heli, OS #F or YS plug and a 16.5-12W APC prop

Troy

Troy, I'm 1.75 out on the high end needle, so I will try to lean it as your suggestion. I'm running the following:

Powermaster DZ 30%
OS F plug
17x12 APC

Thanks for your help!

Todd

Troy if using proper throttle management and using Magnum DZ fuel. How many minutes should I be expecting in the air with a 20oz. Tettra tank? Thanks, Mike

I can't speak for the Magnum fuel....I can get 11-12 mins pretty well on the 140DZ before it barks. This is in calm conditions and a needle set on the lean side of that dead band...I have flown it 13-14 mins of just rolls and such in the last couple mins. Usually the bark or air bubble will come in on a corner specifically a outside coner or a snap.

The fuel is Cool Power 30% Heli blend.

TN

Thanks Troy. Are you using the restrictor? I'm getting 11 to 12 minutes without it and was going to put the thing in next time I fly because of the possible economys and I still need it to slow down a bit. Sure is different than the Webra I had last year. That thing was like a camel. The DZ has more raw power though and it sounds cool. Mike

Mike

I run a 15.5x12W with the restrictor in the DZ and have no trouble flying 14 minutes (no choking/coughing) on 20 oz. I usually can get through 1 3/4 routines of P-05.

Chad we have around 15 guys at my field running the DZ and from what I've seen the fuel economy varies from engine to engine more than the settings or the flying styles. Mike

All three of mine that are setup like that get that much run time on them per tank, all are setup the same with the same needle settings etc. One of them has over 70 gallons of fuel on it still running on original parts (and makes better power than the other two!). That cant be a coincidence that all three are essentially identical.

Running bigger props without the restrictor 11-12 minutes was all I was getting, but I find the motor just runs much better with the restrictor on smaller props.

That's interesting that the smaller prop gives you the extra mileage. For the most part the APC 17X12 is the prop most of us are running. Have you ever experimented with a 3 bladed prop? If you did what size would it be? Thanks again, Mike

smaller prop = better economy because the engine isn't having to "grunt" as much....

Hi Mike

I have tried the 15x13W and the 15x13.5 three bladed props. They were really very quiet in the air but didnt have the power of the two blades (expected) and they didnt really provide any better breaking than the 16.5" (but better than the 15.5") two blades do so I never used them beyond the 20-30 flights trying them out. That was on my ZN Enigma which is 4.46 kg, maybe something lighter with a smaller less draggy fuse like my Evolis they would be better but I never tried them on that model.

Troy, thanks for your help. Was able to get the DZ dialed in tonight. Ended up turning the pump in 1/2 turn overall and the high end is 1.25 out. Running great and idling good. The new Defiant really likes the 17x12 prop. Its flying awesome!

Thanks Again!

Todd

Glad to help.


Hey why don't you Kansas boys head down to Richard Lindberg's contest in Alb, NM on June 19-20.

I'll be there flying and practicing. I'm hoping that some of the FAI guys from Texas show up too.

Its been busy month here in AZ...Attended 3 contest in 3 weeks. Not to mention not being home for the month of May I was flying and practicing in California. ALL I can say its good to be home and have a 2-3 week break before another contest.

Glad your DZ is working well. I know some give them a bad wrap but I truly believe they are the best we have today. I have not found any other glow setup that compares, some come close but I always was trying to get them to run like the DZ.


And the 160 is even better...smoother and more power.

enjoy it!

Troy Newman

Troy, I'd love to fly with you again sometime, but being on the Missouri boarder it would be a long haul to NM. I'll be going to the Kansas City contest on that weekend (1.5 hours away). Hopefully I'll see you at the Nats this year! Good luck in NM!

Thanks again for your help!!

Todd