Hey guys it looks like Piedmont Models have updated their webiste with some juicy details about the Splendor that they are producing for Quique. The wings are pojected to weigh 9 oz. a piece (WOW). He said that he is planning taking the prototype to the Nats. So, if any of you guys have a digital camera, and would like to take a picture of this new bird for those of us that will not be there (NATS) it would be most appreciated.

http://www.piedmontmodels.com/news.htm

I just have one question, the SPLENDOR is intended for which size of engine?
WHich would be the size of this plane?

Hope someone knows the answer!

Thanks

The Splendor is going to be a 140 - 160 size airplane

Oops, my fuzzy writing skills are at fault on our web site. What I'll have at the Nats is a production sample of a different F3A plane kit built to the same material specifications by same contractor as Quique's Splendor. It will show in great detail exactly how the Splendor is going to be manufactured and what you can expect from the kit. This "other" plane will also be retailed by us. I'll be making an official announcement about it fairly soon. I added an draft drawing to my news blurb so you can get an idea of what the Splendor looks like.

Sorry for the confusion.

Lee Davis
[link=http://www.piedmontmodels.com]Piedmont Models[/link]

I'm impressed with the quality of the "supplier example" that Lee had at the Nats.

The composite work is as good (or better) than PL Prod quality. Looking at the detail, I wondered if PL is the composites supplier. Not a thread of cloth out of place. The honeycomb floor, firewall, etc. are installed, along with the firewall (CF honeycomb), the landing gear plate, rudder post & composite rudder. Impeccable craftsmanship! Don't recall if the wing / stab tubes were (will be) installed (probably). The wings / stabs are essentially ready to cover with all woodwork done and very light.

Apparently there will be two offerings, the airplane shown at the Nats (don't recall the name) and Quique's Splendor. Expect it will be a while before they are available, but it should be worth the wait. Projected price is $1200 for C/Kev and $800 for FG, which is lower cost for an airplane with most of the building work complete than a comparable kit from others.


Earl Haury

Is this a kit or an ARF/RTF?

We're going to release both kits as ARCs, then likely duplicate the color scheme for Quique's plane with a follow-up ARF version.

Our fabrication contractor is relatively new to Pattern but has extensive experience with RC jets. They have the same issues we do - airframes have to be light, stiff and able to maintain integrity under high G loads.

Lee Davis
[link=http://www.piedmontmodels.com]Piedmont Models[/link]

The drawings look nice. Any way to buy the plans or kit instead of ARCs?

Because of the way kits are manufactured and assembled by a modern airplane manufacturer plans don't necessarily exist any more in the way you're referring to. Quique designed the Splendor by drawing traditional full scale plans. We then redrew those plans in 2D CAD with corrections for airfoils, continuity and such (what I showed a little of in the News section of our web site). Next they're redrawn in 3D with further modifications for shape and other refinements. What you end up with makes perfect parts on 3D and 2D CNC routers, but not something that would make much sense to a home builder. Keep in mind that the way the planes are manufactured requires no formers in the fuselage, so we're not even using cross sections by the end of the process.

The jist of this is that these planes are designed to be ARF/ARC's from the ground up using certain materials and techniques not available to a home builder. We'd have to redesign the planes in order to turn them into home builder type kits and given the low potential demand vs cost you wouldn't save any money and we'd probably lose money. With all this said we'll probably make some sort of lesser configuration available to a few custom builders, but those guys are few a far between, charge top dollar for their work and can do what they do without any sort of instructions or support from us.

Lee Davis
[link=http://www.piedmontmodels.com]Piedmont Models[/link]

Lee,

Thanks for the reply and explanation, even though it is not good news for those who enjoy building. It looks like it will be a very nice plane.

No one believes we exist anymore

Oh well, there are options......

-Mike

Mike,
It's not that we don't exist or that people don't care; we're just such a small minority that there's no motivation to serve our needs. You can still get 'builders' kits - glass and foam or wood (MK produces some super kits). Plans are tougher to find - so I guess we just have to draw our own or buy those produced by people like you!!
Happy building and flying,
Will B.

PS I just got my Typhoon 2000 plans - finally

Well, as I just found out (totally by accident), we DO exist, and in great numbers....just not necessarily in the USA. However people in Europe, Asia, Central and South America, Australia...are still modelers, not just ARF pilots. Americans have more money than time, and would much rather fly than build THEN fly. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but it just seems that people are missing out on half the hobby. Also there are a great number of ex-pattern pilots in the US that got out of it because suddenly they found that if they wanted a pattern plane, they either had to have an all composites, or an ARF....not much of a choice for anyone that likes a wood pattern plane. So they left pattern. Think about how many wood planes there were 10 years ago vs now. And the Jap kits? Good luck getting one in the US. It can be done, but it's a major hassle and expensive by the time you get it to your door.

But I also understand completely why someone in business to make money in this particular section of the industry does things the way they do. Mass production and more demand, it's that simple.

I dunno, suddenly I feel like a dinosaur....

-Mike (not extinct just YET)

Mike,

It isn't really an issue of money, it's about manufacturing - specifically advances in assembly. I did query our contractor about basic builders kits and the quote I recieved amounted to an end retail price difference that was insignificant, something over $100. The major manufacturing expense in high end planes is the production of composite structures which isn't something the home builder can do anyway.

I have nothing against builders, but I have to work in the environment that exists. The choice between, say, offering a $700 kit that is little more than a set of sheeted wings plus composite parts versus offering an $800 kit that is already built including hardware doesn't allow much in the way of realistic options.

Lee Davis
[link=http://www.piedmontmodels.com]Piedmont Models[/link]

Another thing to consider is that this may be a phase that will die down in a few years, and then kits may see a comeback. The inevitable writing on the wall is that everyone needs to have some kind of building skill unless they wish to hand over cash every time they ding up a plane. However, as Lee put it, composites won't mean cost savings for kit buyers.

I'm not slammin you Lee (I hope I didn't come across that way) I'm just disappointed because I prefer a different building medium, wood and carbon specifically. And it's impossible to find nowadays. I like to build, but at the same time I realize that the majority of people don't.

At the same time, my background is full scale composites and structures, perhaps you've heard of TIMCO in Greensboro? I worked there for many years doing heavy C and D checks on just about every commercial jet out there. So while I definitely see the advantages of full composite planes, I also see the disadvantages as well. Specifically, the more work that is done before hand, the less choice the end user has for particular equipment selection. Also longevity can be an issue...repairability, etc. And the more "high end" it gets, the less the average guy can manage without serious help. Your average guy who's only assembled an arf will have his hands full with a ZN kit, for instance.

I also build planes for folks, and have built quite a few of just about everything. Case in point: I just finished a ZN Hydeaway for a friend. I think most would agree that ZN is the watermark for quality? Seems that way, but hang on. Anyway, the wing tube was preinstalled, but had to be moved...the plane will not balance without a chunk of lead in the nose if you use an OS. Plus it needed to be moved up to take care of some mixing issues (MAJOR). Wouldn't you agree that this is one hell of a job for your average guy? Especially with a foam sandwich and honeycomb bulkheads and trays? Now add that the firewall was WAY too far back because it was set up for a mount that isn't even available in the US, (and for a YS at that), and the wing tube sockets broke out of the wing in the last plane, so they had to be redone on the new one as well. It was also set up for C/F pins instead of adjusters, and the owner wanted adjusters. The C/F servo/tank tray was pre-installed, but had to be cut out and redone to accomadate the new wing tube and a tank on the CG. I could go on and on.......but my point is, it's only as good as what you use with it and how much you're willing to sacrifice.

I dunno, I hope you and QQ have done something beyond what is considered "quality", because from the drawings, that plane looks sweet.

So I'm not trying to trash anyone, I am just looking for the next step in construction, something well thought out and different, even if it's "old school". I'm rambling now I suppose, I just didn't want to come off like I was turning my nose up, I'm not. I'm just frustrated with what's out there now, even though I know why it's like it is.

-Mike

Mike,
Look at the bright side - at least with the ARF/ARC kits available it keeps people interested in pattern. IF ZNLine and PLProd were the only pattern kits around I think pattern would decline rapidly. Lee and others are just trying to produce what will sell. Hey, I bought a FOCUS II ARC and I'm quite happy with it, but I love to build and I'm looking forward to knocking out a couple of TEMPESTs. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll ever see any balsa/foam/CF type kits. There are still some good glass/foam kits around (PIEDMONT MODELS, PAC, AEROSLAVE and Lamar Blair's company).
You can also enlarge plans for designs, too. I've found several 3-views on Japanese web sites. A bit of work to enlarge, but quite acceptable!
-Will B.

Maecello Colombo sells laser cut kits. I have a 91version called the Epsilon. Saving it for the winter....

Oh I agree, I've flown both Focii (hehe) and I was blown away at how well they flew. Very little coupling and they track nice.

I know about CA, I had a Widebody myself, and it was an awesome plane. I just wish it was 2 meters. The Eclipse is pretty neat, but again it's fiberglass, and sometimes hard to get....

I Have a Funtana Pro, which is a FULL 2 meter all wood plane with carbon spars...and it's HUGE, much lager than say a Smaragd...and yet the airframe weighs only about 4 lbs before covering, and that's with the cowl, canopy, etc installed. So I KNOW this plane will be under 10 lbs when it's flying, so it can be done....but just getting enough decent wood to MAKE a kit here in the US is a challenge, and most pattern pilots would turn thier nose up at it anyway, because it's not "state of the art". So again, I understand why things are done the way they are, on plenty of levels. I just believe a lot of people are not being catered to, and those are potential pattern pilots.

BUT I've ranted enough on this subject, heck I may throw in the towel and get a composite pattern plane myself one day. Maybe sooner than I think. But for now, I'll keep flying and building my lumber yards

-Mike