patternrules

My Feedback: (6)

After attending the Nat's this past week it is for sure that the future of pattern is here, I would first like to thank Jason for being the forerunner of the electric pattern planes, these big widebody planes and the extreme power that they have is amazing.
The downside is cost, and I'm sure other factors also, battery life, charging, balancing, but it's only been 2 years sense Jason showed up at the worlds with his electric, Frack started just shortly after and many more.
How about comments on equitment, weight of components, problems being solved, and new technolgy.

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Missed seeing Jason's name mentioned --was he there?

I suppose Jason and Sean are getting ready for World's.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

It sure is and it is flaming hot technology! It happened in flight and he crashed http://vxvy.net/flameout.htm

P.S. Bypass the language set.

rgreen24

My Feedback: (6)

Yep, still a tad too new for me. I will wait till all the bugs get worked out. I would rather have a dead stick landing, than a fireball landing IMHO!!

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Are you talking about fire bugs?

Looks like an automatic onboard fire suppression system might be a good idea! Hate to have that happen while it was in the shop or being transported. Don’t they store and transport the batteries in a metal bucket of sand.

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I just started flying my first electric pattern plane a few weeks ago. A CArf Impact with a Plettenberg 30-10. It flies really well, as usual much better than I can. The advantages are tremendous, and the disadvantages are also significant as with any new technology. Unlike the YS's, OS's, Webras and the like, these power systems are very unforgiving of ignorance, neglect, or accidents. The systems are safe, you just have to be really careful while using them. I transport my batts in a metal tool box, but I feel that is really not that necessary safety wise, just convinient. As has been stated on this site by those who know much more than I, you have to pay attention with how you charge these packs, make sure they are balanced with each other, and be really careful how you employ them. If it wasn't for the guys like Shulman and Tony F, as well as all the other guys who have not only pioneered the use of these systems, but shared their mistakes and successes, I would never have tried it. But I'm glad I did.

My biggest problem in the beginning was motor temps, but I think I have that licked. A combination of a smaller prop, and ducting has yeilded a pretty reliable system so far. I am sure there will be bumps in the road, but it's made the hobby more fun for me again.

Prices will come down, the only sticker now is battery prices. You can piece together a reliable motor and controller combo for much less than a new 160 dz now. If you figure the cost of 30% Cool Power for a whole season and compare that with a couple sets of lipos... well it's not the same, but at least it can be put into perspective.

The whole point is to enjoy the hobby and that's why I have almost completely switched to electric. It's just cool. Have to admit though, still love the sound and smell of a well tuned DZ!

patternrules

My Feedback: (6)

There was 110 rounds flown by electrics at the Nat's and I'm not aware of even one battery failure and deffently no fires, 14 pilots of the 99 used elelctric power and it is awesome, in fact power that we haven't ever seen in pattern, and all made weight.
There was an article in the last K-Factor about the fire you are showing the link for, some of the things I learned about this was don't ever over run the batteries, you can balloon a pack, unlike the smaller foamy packs they have to be balanced I was told best every charge which only takes a few minutes (about 3). Did also see lots using temp gauges after flights.
I started this thread to get more info from the ones that using different setups and we will see more of the fires I'm sure. Yes there will still be IC engines used in pattern. This is just a start.
Steve Maxwell

J Lachowski

My Feedback: (46)

Steve,

What you fail to mention is that the majority of those flying electric are sponsored pilots in one way or the other. It will take time before one will see a large number flying electric. Perhaps 5 yrs? $2000 in batteries to be able to practice like one does with the IC engine will hold many back from making the investment. There is also definitely a learning curve associated with flying with electric. It was apparent on some manuevers while I was in the judging chair.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Steve,

With the dominance of ARFs and now electric power systems do you think the airframe and power system will eventually become like and appliance? An ARF airframe that you buy and snap in the motor, batteries, radio gear and go fly. Kind of like a more sophisticated big version of the foamys. And with smooth running electric power, injected molded foam parts might displace wood and composite construction? A world where it’s all about pilot flying skill and the airframe becomes a less relevant component of competition.

patternrules

My Feedback: (6)

[/quote]
There was 110 rounds flown by electrics at the Nat's and I'm not aware of even one battery failure and deffently no fires, 14 pilots of the 99 used elelctric power and it is awesome, in fact power that we haven't ever seen in pattern, and all made weight.
There was an article in the last K-Factor about the fire you are showing the link for, some of the things I learned about this was don't ever over run the batteries, you can balloon a pack, unlike the smaller foamy packs they have to be balanced I was told best every charge which only takes a few minutes (about 3). Did also see lots using temp gauges after flights.
I started this thread to get more info from the ones that using different setups and we will see more of the fires I'm sure. Yes there will still be IC engines used in pattern. This is just a start.
Steve Maxwell

[/quote]

Steve,

With the dominance of ARFs and now electric power systems do you think the airframe and power system will eventually become like and appliance? An ARF airframe that you buy and snap in the motor, batteries, radio gear and go fly. Kind of like a more sophisticated big version of the foamys. And with smooth running electric power, injected molded foam parts might displace wood and composite construction? A world where it’s all about pilot flying skill and the airframe becomes a less relevant component of competition.




[/quote]
Funny you should mention that I over heard someone say "it won't be long before you can buy these at Wally World in a bubble pack for $895.95", of course that won't happen we are way to small in numbers for that, but 8178 it could get close, there used to be a builder of the model rule in pattern same as scale and some would like to see that come back but it won't. I like to build my own from a kit like the Eclipse and many others you get sheeted wings and fiberglas fuse or composite, so you have many options on how and what you put into it.
You may see what your talking about some part from but I can't ever see pattern as as one plane one power system comptetion, to many people still experiment with even the newest planes.
I sure hope we never see IROC pattern
Steve

mikehannah

Hi
I agree we have had a glimpse of the future but it is still several years away yet.
I think Electric will eventually be the norm in all fields of model flying ( except turbines of course).
They offer zero vibration, plug and play installation. no more screwing around with needle valve, tuned pipes sagging middle ranges etc.
However for us to get to that state of NIRVANA we need a power source that is as user friendly as Nicads with the Power density of LiPos.
LiPo are just way to unstable. You over charge them they go on fire, You over discharge them you wreck them, you pincture them they go on fire, you store them incorrectly and you lose capacity.
They just aint user friendly yet.

Personnelly at the rate that battery technology is advancing we will be there in 3 to 4 years max. But my hat goes off to the guys who are leading the Vanguard.

Mike

Bob101

I guess if we go electric we can start calling the planes "toys" and not models. If we go all out electric in pattern/IMAC/scale etc.. as you suggest we're no longer modeling - just putting junk up to fly for fun - that makes it a toy - until I start seeing electric planes full scale.

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

I've been told by a few flyers in the know that the technology is progessing so fast that the Electric option will become much more viable within the next year.
I wouldn't consider an electric 2 meter to be anything more than just another option. It doesn't make you a better flyer overnight. You still need all the other elements you've always needed to be competitive.
Also the planes that dominated the placings at the Nats were not of the cheaper ARF variety. So I would say that we are quite a bit away from Wallmart plug and play options. Mike

tommy s

My Feedback: (55)

I guess for me it's like the difference between a Harley Davidson and a Honda, there's nothing
like the sound and power of a Harley but the Honda sure runs good and smooth. For me the IC
engine, even with inevitable tuning problems, is part of the fun of model airplanes. It'll be awhile
before I go electric, even though they sure are impressive with that silent power.

tommy s

Neo02

That is a hot one, Bob. May I politely disagree?
Where I live, Switzerland, electric is quickly becoming one of the last options we have in order to fly. Not just fly competitions, but fly at all. We are in process of signing up for a field which will probably be electrics and sailplane only. I don't think our hobby will become a "toy story" just because we need change our power source to continue pursuing our hobby. BTW electric planes full scale is already doable, I have seen at least a couple of electric powered full scale motor gliders, like the [link=http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.de/english/menu/menu-prod.htm]Antares[/link] but others exist as well.
I think electric and IC will continue coexisting like they did in the last 30 years at least. Maybe electric now has a slight edge and is riding on a wave, but IC will definitely NOT be replaced anytime soon. But for us it is the only solution, if we want to keep flying near densely populated areas like where I live.

Regards,
-Fabrizio

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

That brings up an interesting aspect. Do you think that IC motors will ever be outlawed because they produce polution?
One thing I really miss seeing is a 300 foot smoke trail form a DZ running a little on the rich side. It just looks and sounds cool. Mike

Neo02

No, I don't think so. Glow engines don't produce any significant pollution, just water (H2O) and little residue from synth oil. It pollutes far more to drive to and from the flying field, for that matter... The problem is, model airplanes are flown on saturdays and sundays, when a lot of people want - and have their right to - rest. Eliminating or reducing noise emission makes aeromodelling suitable also for fields near residential areas, like where I live. Try searching for Lugano, Switzerland in Google Maps...
At our club we have been trying to induce people to use bigger props, soft mounts, all the way from 6,5ccm to 30ccm and over (seldom flown here due to place limitations), with great results. Electric will give us even MORE possibility to fly, maybe also on weekdays (not possible now), and we finally can start train for local, regional and national/international championships...
Best regards,
-Fabrizio

mikehannah

Mups
I would dearly like to know what "Your fliers in the know", know? I know Toshiba are bringing out a cell next year that can be recharged in a ridicilously short space of time.
80% recharge in under a minute. but what else is on the horizon?
There is another derivative of LiPo, Safion which can be overcharged, stabbed crushed and generally abused and they do zip, but they dont have the capacity nor the ability to deliver the current.
So what is over the Horizon? because until they become alot more user friendly they wont take off ( no pun intended)

Mike

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Hey Mike sorry I can't give specifics except that Hacker is supposed to have an improved motor and that the Lipo battery technology seems to be on the improvement fast track. Just basedc on what's happened in the recent past I would hope that they are making this an easier option. Mike