The problem of putting a kit like the Tiporare back in production is the problem we have been discussing all along....demand.
There is simply not much demand for a pattern plane like this....it falls between the cracks. It is not SPA legal and just too fast and small to compete well in modern pattern.
That is why there is so much equipment like this gathering dust and going into decay....including some of mine. Most modelers (I am somewhat guilty myself)prefer to buy a scale aerobatic ARF which gets them in the air fast and cheap rather than build and/or thinker with these sometimes finicky old pattern planes with thier retracts and piped 2 cycle engines. Myself, I have sworn off retracts.
PilotFrog

I can't, and will not try, to speak for Dick H., but when I was in the fiberglass pattern plane buisiness, there was at least one spot during the week that I could lay-up anything I wanted. The Tipo is a simple plane to lay up. There is no belly pan, canopy, cowl, etc. Just two fuse mold halves. Both sides of that fuse could be ready to go in the oven after about 1 hour worth of work.

If I had the time, and hadn't developed an allergy to epoxy, I'd be trying to buy up as many of these old molds as possible. Even if I only sold a couple of kits a week, it would be worth the extra modling income.

just my .02 on the subject
John

Wow!!! a 2m Tipo! That would set the pattern world on fire. Oh well, just a thought.

I know the SPA gets hit a lot with the retract thing. One of the things they refute it with is that the request always comes from outside of the SPA. I submit that the rule is one reason they are still outside of the SPA =)

At my field there are a group of guys who fly fast Dirty Birdies and such, and they compete in our annual AMA pattern event. They don't get into it any deeper because they don't feel like they can compete with the 2 meter planes. But the rules for SPA exclude the style of pattern plane they enjoy, so they don't do SPA.

There's a lot of people out there that really like this style of pattern plane. It's probably the most testoserone laden pattern there has ever been =) As for no planes being available, well there wasn't a big market for Daddy Rabbits and T2As before SPA either. And not many people realize a Curare is legal, and may consider it sacreligeous to put a 4 stroke on the nose and make it fixed gear. What I consider odd is that the Curare is legal, yet the plans clearly show retracts. I suppose this is considered "fringe".

I also have the plans for a Mach One, and it was designed in 73 I think...and it shows retracts. Interesting.

I think a class for the 75-85 or so planes has some merit to it.

-Mike

Kinda thought retracts were not really popular anymore, even modern pattern planes did not have them. SPA is for INEXPENSIVE old time pattern. If you want a high speed pattern SIG I guess you can start one.

I don't thing it has much to do with being "popular" or not. A pattern plane is designed to WIN a competition following the rules. Today's emphasis is a lot more on maniability and stall than on clean trajectories, hence speed is the enemy (almost), and retract does not make sense if you are not looking for speed.

I have looked at SPA rules also, and am not interested, because pretending to fly planes from the 60s and 70s without retracts simply does not make sense. They ALL had retracts, if they were internationally competitive, and today you find good retracts for about 35 bucks, so it has nothing to do with money.

I had a Minare years ago that I loved, and may very well build a Curare, but it would be a crime to have a Curare without retracts, so the hell with the SPA....(Have flown a Mach One, too, was a great plane, fast landings....)

Bernard

So why not go ahead and put the retracts on and fly SPA anyway. Just don't raise them up. Retracts were never required for competition, and judging was never about speed. But some judges were swayed by speed so they remained. When popular opinion shifted, then many planes ditched the retracts. IMO the retracts don't hurt (help?) speed near as much as the pipe.

Yeah, but they sure look cooler...

I did get replies from both Bruce and Mickey at SPA. Mike Hester is right that most of the requests come from people outside the SPA. Bruce said the same thing in a very nice reply to me.
My big issue is not the retracts....I don't like retracts because of the added compexity and weight. They caused me too much woe when I flew pattern. For my level of competition they were not necessary for me and were more of a hinderance. The new crop of 2 M pattern planes proves that retracts are not necessary....the planes flies almost as fast and as well with fuse mounted strut gear and wheel pants.
My issue is being able to fly the planes that were used before the change to turnaround and unlimited engines.
It is also right that most of the winning planes that flew in the early to mid 70s were piped. The Curare that Hanno flew was definetly piped! RE engines were also making their debut.
Just looking for a notch where these planes can fly rather than having to be elbowed out and left to fall between the cracks.
PilotFrog

When the Pattern ships started to grow they blew the tipo into the hippo tippo. WoW that was a long time ago. I too loved the speed and clean lines of a 70's pattern ship. At 14 I was flying a Pheoinx 5 and dreaming of a EU1-A. I watched Don Lowe and Dave Brown compete for years as I grew up in Ohio.
Still got a Pices (modified Pheonix 5) and a American Pie (early 80's) unbuilt in the shop. Every time I think of unloading them I say NAAAH next year I will build it.
Scott

Right about speed, but wrong about trims...gear down and gear up, if the plane is fast and designed for retracts, will not be as neutral gear down.

Bernard

Well, you can fly them and even compete with them in current AMA pattern, they are legal. You are just at a disadvantage because of the 2 meter planes. That's why I use a 2 meter plane in AMA pattern =)

No it would just be fun if there were somewhere a bunch of us could meet with these types of plane and compete. These are the "Street Rods" of pattern planes, if you ask me. They are funtionally obsolete, but that doesn't mean they aren't really cool and represent an era that a lot of people would just as soon sweep under the carpet.

These are the planes that got me into pattern. These are the planes that brought me back to R/C after a 15 year absence. these are the planes that burned an image into my brain. Joe Bridi standing there with his UFO, with his sunglasses and Gold necklace....Hanno with his Curare, Wolfgang Matt with his Atlas, Dave Brown with his Tiporare (before he lost his freakin mind). 30 mph crosswinds and a 120 mph missle screaming into a perfectly smooth 8 point roll. Forgotten.

Now we get images of some old guy with a bunch of sticks, or a guy with an ARF Extra number 0938451385610. Bahh!

-Mike

Confession:
I spent the first couple evenings with my Eclipse setting it up, adjusting the retracts, and running them up and down, up and down. I'm too embarassed to say how many times.

One of these days I'll grow up.

It's first showing at our club fun fly, it was the only plane in the air late afternoon. Gusty over 25 mph winds. Definately noticed a difference in wind penitration and handling with them up vs down in these conditions.

Don't loose hope Mike, in a few years "Senior" Pattern will be us guys, and the late '70's - early 80's planes will rule. Bring on the pipes and the retracts, I'm down with that. Heck, who said the oldies are not competitive against the 2 meter birds. I know a guy who won a round in a contest in Nashville with an Intruder 90 this year against a whole bunch of 2 meter birds. I think he had a little help from the wind though, and did not know any better.

All this talk makes me want to dust off my Tipo 40 kit and build it.

Greg "The Intruder"

HAHAhA

Yeah you were dialed that day Greg. Of course flying for $100 didn't hurt the ole incentive did it?

Ok I admit it, I just spent the last hour looking at these Curare plans. I just need to figure out which engine. I need a piped, pumped rear exhaust screamer. Any ideas? I mean available, not lying in someone's basement with the bearings rusted solid. I'm not taking the Webra out of the UFO.

Yep that's it, the Curare just entered the building qeue!!! Soon to be seen blistering through the box during practice at a pattern contest near you...

-Mike

Too bad we don't live closer..seem like we have the same muscle car pattern engine bug. I got a slew of RE engines..not pumped...that I've been hoarding for years. Now I'm just starting to whip a couple out, I figure I've reached the age where I better start using them, I think I have enough to last me the rest of my flying life. Last thing I want is to lie on my deathbed, thinking, "Damn..I shoulda fired up that last Rossi I had stashed"!
Glad I stashed a bunch of Rev Up's, too. Image is everything.

Hey Mike,

There is a new in box webra rear exhaust on ebay as we speak. Going for $25.00 at the moment. I have a OS 60 ABC RFP new in box too, and it does not have a flake of rust on it.

I hope you build the Curare, I've had my eye on building one since 1981. I came very close to buying the plans last month. Someone in SPA (Steve Byrum) built a Curare, and put a .91 four stroke in it (yea I know). He did have a Rabbit, and he said the Curare flew much, much better. BTW I know where to get the cores if you don't.

You are right, It is amazing how well you can fly when money is on the line

Greg

Greg I've got a set of Curare plans if you want a copy. I think we ought to build them and take them to the shows just to shake up the other guys =)

I'm thinking about maybe a Jett FIRE 60, piped. It only weighs 12 ounces, and the few jetts I have seen ran really hot. plus who needs transition on one of these? Tune it wide open and let her rip!!!

-Mike

Mike,

E-mail me off line about the plans, I'm interested.

Jett Fire 60....that is like a 454 in a Bandit Special Trans Am. I love it. Remove the pipe, put a muffler on, leave the retracts down, and it would give the SPA bunch a kick in the pants.

Greg

Just curious guys, the curare was a trike gear correct? Would it be legal in SPA to build one as a taildragger? Thanks in advance.

Yes, it would still be legal and the prefered way for SPA competition. The Dirty Birdy was Tri but Joe shows the taildrager option on the plans.
PilotFrog

I think so. In fact I know there were a very small number of pattern planes built with conventional gear in the 70's. Mostly for novice events though. Check their rules on their web site.

Gentlemen

Imagine my surprise to find my name while snooping around. The Curare flew great with the OS91. It had an extremely short life(dumb thumb). The OS created some balance problems, and added significantly to the weight. It was a tail dragger and is SPA legal that way. The new one is just completed, but not yet flown due to weather and work constraints.

This thing was great in the wind. We flew at Bowling Green, KY in a boiling 25mph cross wind. The plane didn't care. It weighed 8-4 (don't choke, Mike), but a 14x8 and 30% Coolpower Heli provided all that is currently needed in an SPA plane. It seems some of you have a need for speed. The OS made it a rocket.

Steve!!!!!!

I have a question for you. the plans I have show a pretty thick airfoil. Is this the airfoil you used? And could you thin the airfoil much through SPA rules, and would the plane even care?

I think I won't do a 4 stroke, me and 4 strokes just don't get along. I am thinking of a Jett .60 screaming...

As for the landing gear, I don't know yet.

-Mike

FIRE = Front Intake Rear Exhaust.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that rear exhaust engines are not allowed in SPA.

John