Monokote
06-16-2006, 02:20 PM
#102
RE: Monokote
I think the last paragraph of this post is good place to start.
Bax, should I send the problem MonoKote to hobby services?
Bax, should I send the problem MonoKote to hobby services?
ORIGINAL: Bax
Facts about Top Flite Super MonoKote:
In order to clear up some of the misconceptions that have been surfacing lately concerning Top Flite Super MonoKote, we would like to clear the air.
In no uncertain terms, let us state that the manufacturing process of Super MonoKote has not changed since the introduction of this product back in the 60's. The basic formulation has only been changed as necessary to comply with the ever-evolving EPA regulations where some specific solvent and pigment compounds have become banned substances. As such, a substitute formulation has sometimes become necessary. In every such case, Hobbico has worked with our vendor to minimize the impact on any products other than the specific color(s) affected by the EPA regulations.
We are sure that the film vendors like DuPont and Dow Chemical and such have also been regulated by the EPA in what specific chemicals and processes they can use in the making of the films used for this product. Our specifications to our vendor state that the films are still the same films always used, with the same high clarity and surface finish, plus shrink properties, as historically used.
Therefore, it is possible that the application parameters and techniques have evolved very slightly. For example, more heat and a bit more pressure are typically needed with certain colors in order to achieve the award winning finish that MonoKote is known for. The bottom line, however, is that Top Flite Super MonoKote is still the best heat shrink covering on the market. Super MonoKote is still made by the same supplier with the same specifications that have always been used.
As always, when a roll of material does not perform up to the user's expectations, we would like to receive a sample of the material and welcome the opportunity to try to make it right with the user. We're modelers too, and use the material here in the development of our own new airplane products, as well as our own kits, ARF's, and other modeling projects. If something is going wrong with a certain batch of a specific color, we want to know about it so we can correct the situation.
Facts about Top Flite Super MonoKote:
In order to clear up some of the misconceptions that have been surfacing lately concerning Top Flite Super MonoKote, we would like to clear the air.
In no uncertain terms, let us state that the manufacturing process of Super MonoKote has not changed since the introduction of this product back in the 60's. The basic formulation has only been changed as necessary to comply with the ever-evolving EPA regulations where some specific solvent and pigment compounds have become banned substances. As such, a substitute formulation has sometimes become necessary. In every such case, Hobbico has worked with our vendor to minimize the impact on any products other than the specific color(s) affected by the EPA regulations.
We are sure that the film vendors like DuPont and Dow Chemical and such have also been regulated by the EPA in what specific chemicals and processes they can use in the making of the films used for this product. Our specifications to our vendor state that the films are still the same films always used, with the same high clarity and surface finish, plus shrink properties, as historically used.
Therefore, it is possible that the application parameters and techniques have evolved very slightly. For example, more heat and a bit more pressure are typically needed with certain colors in order to achieve the award winning finish that MonoKote is known for. The bottom line, however, is that Top Flite Super MonoKote is still the best heat shrink covering on the market. Super MonoKote is still made by the same supplier with the same specifications that have always been used.
As always, when a roll of material does not perform up to the user's expectations, we would like to receive a sample of the material and welcome the opportunity to try to make it right with the user. We're modelers too, and use the material here in the development of our own new airplane products, as well as our own kits, ARF's, and other modeling projects. If something is going wrong with a certain batch of a specific color, we want to know about it so we can correct the situation.
06-20-2006, 10:01 PM
#103
My Feedback: (56)
RE: Monokote
I used to use MK in the early 90s then switched to UK. The first 6 or so ships came out great ,but now my last 3 have bubbling issues when left in the warm sun for even a short while. It really POs me because they look great when they're done and in the the house , but get ugly at the field.I was ready to go back to MK , but not after what I've read here.
I interested in knowing what MK guru Faye Stylee (spelling is off but pronounced the same) has to say . He's won just about every covering award and wrote a book about the plastic covering process. As far as I know, he uses MK exclusively- and may be sponsored by GP.Someone should send him a 1/2 or more of a bad roll and see what he says. If my memory serves me right , he lives in Conn. Maybe then Hobby Services will listen.
I interested in knowing what MK guru Faye Stylee (spelling is off but pronounced the same) has to say . He's won just about every covering award and wrote a book about the plastic covering process. As far as I know, he uses MK exclusively- and may be sponsored by GP.Someone should send him a 1/2 or more of a bad roll and see what he says. If my memory serves me right , he lives in Conn. Maybe then Hobby Services will listen.
06-21-2006, 11:41 AM
#104
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RE: Monokote
Yes, Faye is a member of one of my clubs (CMAC). He recently built a beautiful model for our winter build contest. I didn't ask but I assumed it was covered with Monokote. I'll try to catch up with him and see what he has to say about the NEW Monokote.
John Pavlick
John Pavlick
07-27-2006, 03:46 PM
#105
My Feedback: (56)
RE: Monokote
Not much has been said in recent weeks about covering materials. I guess we are all too busy flying , which is a good thing , but I'm itching to get started on my Brio and I'm not all that thrilled with using Ultracote, either. Today , I decided to take out my ole' Midwest Extra for a little air & a diversion. I covered it with Ultracote in 1997 and it still looks great - tight ,wrinkle free and glossy . Outta the basement and into the 90 degree sun and no wrinkles. Had my new Focus 2 (ARC) out 3x this week , mostly the same Ultracote colors and wrinkles galore after 10 minutes in the sun. What's up with UK ? I know MC isn't a viable alternative anymore , with what has been said here ,but UK seems to have changed something in the adhesive , too. My theory is that the adhesive activates at a much lower temp now and when you bring em' all pretty and tight from the house to the great outdoors, even a little heat with moderate sunlight loosens things (i.e.- wrinkles & bubbles ). Looking for feedback on other types of film , NOT necessarily how to apply it . I've passed that test already , thankyou !
07-27-2006, 08:12 PM
#108
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RE: Monokote
Well, I have covered a few planes since my last posts. Ultracote is definitely the way to go for white. It's so easy to apply as opposed to Monokote!!!! No wrinkles or problems.
I haven't had any wrinkles yet.. All's good.
Actually covering a friends Focus right now. Ultracote is going well on it. The monokote is also going ok as I'm not using the white, and I hand picked the deep red outta my stock.
BTW. I have samples of the bad deep red. It looks just like the stuff a few posts down. I would gladly have sent them in but apparantly they didn't care enough to answer our posts.
Oh well, I'm over it!!
Chris
I haven't had any wrinkles yet.. All's good.
Actually covering a friends Focus right now. Ultracote is going well on it. The monokote is also going ok as I'm not using the white, and I hand picked the deep red outta my stock.
BTW. I have samples of the bad deep red. It looks just like the stuff a few posts down. I would gladly have sent them in but apparantly they didn't care enough to answer our posts.
Oh well, I'm over it!!
Chris
07-27-2006, 09:27 PM
#109
RE: Monokote
I've waxed my planes covered with UC. They shine just about like MK ones. The best is synthetic polymer wax. I don't know if they still make Auri, but that is what I used. I also used Liquid Luster, but that is organic polymer (carnuba wax). That doesn't last as long as synthetic wax. Besides making the planes look very good, they also make cleaning up glow fuel simple. Just wipe once with a rag and be done with it. The fuel comes up right away without cleaners.
07-28-2006, 02:04 PM
#111
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RE: Monokote
Funny I just happened onto this...I have a GP Venus 2 ARF...covering was so bad on it I couldn't believe it...it would NOT shrink up when I tried to remove the wrinkles and bubbles. also large portions of it were not stuck to the sheeting.
Seams were somewhat poor too ( read coming apart) . This was right out of the box. ........after 3 hours of trying to " fix" it
I decided that the ONLY way to have it look decent was to remove it all and use another product. I guess their ARF builder/coverers haven't evolved with the times either???
Seams were somewhat poor too ( read coming apart) . This was right out of the box. ........after 3 hours of trying to " fix" it
I decided that the ONLY way to have it look decent was to remove it all and use another product. I guess their ARF builder/coverers haven't evolved with the times either???
07-28-2006, 03:03 PM
#112
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Monokote
I just returned from the basement shop where I tried to put on some transparent MK yellow. Two tries - no luck. It would not shrink to the point I burned a hole in it with the heat gun. I then tried some transparent Ultrakote - went on like butter.
Paul
Paul
12-21-2006, 04:35 PM
#113
RE: Monokote
ORIGINAL: eflier
Funny I just happened onto this...I have a GP Venus 2 ARF...covering was so bad on it I couldn't believe it...it would NOT shrink up when I tried to remove the wrinkles and bubbles. also large portions of it were not stuck to the sheeting.
Seams were somewhat poor too ( read coming apart) . This was right out of the box. ........after 3 hours of trying to " fix" it
I decided that the ONLY way to have it look decent was to remove it all and use another product. I guess their ARF builder/coverers haven't evolved with the times either???
Funny I just happened onto this...I have a GP Venus 2 ARF...covering was so bad on it I couldn't believe it...it would NOT shrink up when I tried to remove the wrinkles and bubbles. also large portions of it were not stuck to the sheeting.
Seams were somewhat poor too ( read coming apart) . This was right out of the box. ........after 3 hours of trying to " fix" it
I decided that the ONLY way to have it look decent was to remove it all and use another product. I guess their ARF builder/coverers haven't evolved with the times either???
Two friends building Venus 2 for pattern have found the same thing. The monokot (applied by the 'experts') is wrinkled and coming off the plane. One is trying to reshrink and salvage the covering, the second threw his hands in the air and redid the whole plane in Ultracote, no problems.
I am surprised the 'experts' at GP can't get it to work either since we have been told repeatedly there is NO PROBLEM with Monokote
Woodie
12-22-2006, 08:42 AM
#114
My Feedback: (41)
RE: Monokote
In the last year I have covered a plane with UK and then MK. I thought the MK was better looking overall except with the white where the MK was unusable. I had major problems with the UK medium blue color in the sun. It bubbled up real bad. Thats why I had to strip the plane and do it in MK except the white. So I will do my next plane the same way. The 2 products seem to mix OK. Mike
12-22-2006, 12:33 PM
#115
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RE: Monokote
I've always used MK, but since this thread informed me of all the problems I chose to covered my last plane in UK. NEVER AGAIN! Yeah, it goes on okay, but hold on to your a_ _ when it hits the sun.
I've had the same problem as Mike with white, black and red UK. Looks good until the sun hits it, then look out. You can stand there and just watch it rinkle and bubble before your eyes. My wings, stab, and rudder looks like a prune. Trying to reshrink it (especially the black) just made the seams pull.
I might have to rename my plane "Granny lips".
My next plane will be all painted if the airframe comes out light enough.
Todd
I've had the same problem as Mike with white, black and red UK. Looks good until the sun hits it, then look out. You can stand there and just watch it rinkle and bubble before your eyes. My wings, stab, and rudder looks like a prune. Trying to reshrink it (especially the black) just made the seams pull.
I might have to rename my plane "Granny lips".
My next plane will be all painted if the airframe comes out light enough.
Todd
12-22-2006, 05:13 PM
#117
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RE: Monokote
Hi Guys,
A painted plane is a superior plane for me, but for some it is not.
Have you guys considered 21st Century film? I have used it in the past and found it superior to MK and UK. Not as shiny as MK but shinier than UK. Once you shrink it- it stays that way. Very user friendly and doesn't shatter like MK.
Food for thought.....
Gene
A painted plane is a superior plane for me, but for some it is not.
Have you guys considered 21st Century film? I have used it in the past and found it superior to MK and UK. Not as shiny as MK but shinier than UK. Once you shrink it- it stays that way. Very user friendly and doesn't shatter like MK.
Food for thought.....
Gene
09-04-2007, 03:24 PM
#118
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RE: Monokote
Just found this thread after searching for some other stuff.... gotta agree with everything said here... I've covered 4 Carden 40% Extras this summer... And even MK with no apparent bubbles gives yo problems. I would get rolls that went on OK using some new techniques (more heat, more pre stretch) and then the next color or airplane would mystically morph and made me look like I was just learning how to cover.... I tried everything and the results were fine... but at MAJOR time and headache.
I'm wanting to hear more about how UC does in the sun with bubbles.... because I just covered a plane with it and it took less than half the time as the MK... not as glossy inside, but outside looks fine. No wax on it. it was very predictable and made the covering process enjoyable again.
ANY info on bubbling on full sheeted wings with UC?
I'm wanting to hear more about how UC does in the sun with bubbles.... because I just covered a plane with it and it took less than half the time as the MK... not as glossy inside, but outside looks fine. No wax on it. it was very predictable and made the covering process enjoyable again.
ANY info on bubbling on full sheeted wings with UC?
09-04-2007, 08:30 PM
#119
My Feedback: (56)
RE: Monokote
Yes, certain UC colors ( blue and black the worst ) applied over sheeted wings will indeed bubble in the sun... at least the new garbage covering that is now being sold . Same with MC. I've heard rumors that the EPA had a hand in this. Did big brother require covering adhesives to be reformulated ?? The adhesive weakens in moderate sun / temps ; ruining our best efforts.
09-04-2007, 09:56 PM
#120
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RE: Monokote
SO, what to do with monokote then?
I've recently covered my new ship in a mixture of MK and UC and the UC looks good, the MK looks horrible. It's nearly brought me to tears.
THere's gotta be a way of fixing this!
I've recently covered my new ship in a mixture of MK and UC and the UC looks good, the MK looks horrible. It's nearly brought me to tears.
THere's gotta be a way of fixing this!
09-06-2007, 11:15 AM
#123
RE: Monokote
AND HERE I THOUGHT IT WAS ME....
After a decade or so hiatus from R/C, I have covered a couple of airplanes, and done a few ARFs (Venus II, Hobbico trainers, Bird of Time)
and I thought "Wow, I have forgotten how to cover". Wrong. I have experienced all of the same issues as the others in the preceding posts. The covering on the ARFs was between marginal and crap.
There IS a BIG DIFFERENCE between my old stock MK and the new stuff. No denying it.
I wonder if they are making it in China?
Best regards,
Robert
After a decade or so hiatus from R/C, I have covered a couple of airplanes, and done a few ARFs (Venus II, Hobbico trainers, Bird of Time)
and I thought "Wow, I have forgotten how to cover". Wrong. I have experienced all of the same issues as the others in the preceding posts. The covering on the ARFs was between marginal and crap.
There IS a BIG DIFFERENCE between my old stock MK and the new stuff. No denying it.
I wonder if they are making it in China?
Best regards,
Robert
09-06-2007, 06:57 PM
#124
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RE: Monokote
Well good to hear I'm not alone in frustration. I've worked around it ok, but what a royal pain in the arse.
Here are the last 2 planes I covered in MK... turned out shiny and all, but up close you can see areas where there is no adhesion from that "gassing" effect you get now that you have to apply it at 4000 degrees. I've tried heat gunning and cotton with the new stuff, and it looks great, but the temp isn't there to get adhesion, and over a solid sheeted 40% airframe, that leaves all sorts of demons for wrinkles and bubbles sitting in the sun. So both ended up getting 100% iron over every square inch... working all the pockets to the center.
I'm still torn on what to do the next job with... gotta start covering in 3 days.... The system I've got going now works, but TAKES FOREVER! It's physically challenging too! The best luck I've had is stretching the $&%$ out of the monokote in the tack phase. It is no longer tack and shrink to fit... Say the 50" wing panel gets tacked at the root, then I lay out to the tip. I've been pulling the covering with no heat, 4-5 inches past where it wants to lay naturally. It wrinkles up really bad on a diagonal at this stage. Run a center line from root to tip at high temp and melt it down. Then you have to stretch the film just as hard to the LE and TE from that center section you stuck down. This is with a socked 21st Century Iron at FULL temp! To get the diagnal wrinkles out you have to cold STRETCH the unshrunk MK to the LE and TE to remove all the diagonal wrinkles. I'm pulling literally as hard as I can (use the grippy gloves or it slips out) and then tacking it every few inches to the LE/TE.
Then you gotta come back and start at the centerline (tip to root) and work every square inch with the iron. I follow the iron pass with the cotton wad just like if using a gun... the iron just gets the temp higher and consistent. It puffs up and bubbles, then the cotton works it out befre it cools off.
Royal pain, and takes 2x3 times longer than it used to... uncalled for and needs to be fixed.... I'm loosing my patience with the inconsistency in production. I had to cover the turtle deck on the Edge twice because I ran out of the 25' roll of missile Red and bought a 6' to finish it.... well it was WAY off in color! There are more pics of stages during covering and building at levijordan.com
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Here are the last 2 planes I covered in MK... turned out shiny and all, but up close you can see areas where there is no adhesion from that "gassing" effect you get now that you have to apply it at 4000 degrees. I've tried heat gunning and cotton with the new stuff, and it looks great, but the temp isn't there to get adhesion, and over a solid sheeted 40% airframe, that leaves all sorts of demons for wrinkles and bubbles sitting in the sun. So both ended up getting 100% iron over every square inch... working all the pockets to the center.
I'm still torn on what to do the next job with... gotta start covering in 3 days.... The system I've got going now works, but TAKES FOREVER! It's physically challenging too! The best luck I've had is stretching the $&%$ out of the monokote in the tack phase. It is no longer tack and shrink to fit... Say the 50" wing panel gets tacked at the root, then I lay out to the tip. I've been pulling the covering with no heat, 4-5 inches past where it wants to lay naturally. It wrinkles up really bad on a diagonal at this stage. Run a center line from root to tip at high temp and melt it down. Then you have to stretch the film just as hard to the LE and TE from that center section you stuck down. This is with a socked 21st Century Iron at FULL temp! To get the diagnal wrinkles out you have to cold STRETCH the unshrunk MK to the LE and TE to remove all the diagonal wrinkles. I'm pulling literally as hard as I can (use the grippy gloves or it slips out) and then tacking it every few inches to the LE/TE.
Then you gotta come back and start at the centerline (tip to root) and work every square inch with the iron. I follow the iron pass with the cotton wad just like if using a gun... the iron just gets the temp higher and consistent. It puffs up and bubbles, then the cotton works it out befre it cools off.
Royal pain, and takes 2x3 times longer than it used to... uncalled for and needs to be fixed.... I'm loosing my patience with the inconsistency in production. I had to cover the turtle deck on the Edge twice because I ran out of the 25' roll of missile Red and bought a 6' to finish it.... well it was WAY off in color! There are more pics of stages during covering and building at levijordan.com