I was just thinking to myself after reading a few threads, which is more popular. I know of very few for either size, but I believe there are more 90-110 size planes on the market. But which is the bigger market?

My two cents: By the time you outfit one of the current .90-1.10 sized airplanes (Quest 3D, Showtime, Venus II, etc.), you have almost as much in it as a true two meter airplane. Part of the problem, IMHO, is that the ".90" sized airplanes are really 1.10 to 1.20 sized airplanes, and to have enough power, you need a YS 1.10 or a Saito 1.25, neither of which are cheap. If there was a GOOD airplane that would have unlimited vertical on one of several unblown .91 fourstrokes (OS, Magnum, Saito, etc.) that lots of people have, running on 30% heli fuel like SPA airplanes do, I think it would be a best seller. Those engines can turn a 13x9 or 14x7/8 props with authority, running on that fuel, and they will run forever. But the plane needs to be LIGHT. The Blackhorse Models Bravo 303 is close in concept, but it needs to be a more modern design and lighter. The plane needs to be somewhere in between the size of the the Bravo and the current crop of 1.10 sized airplanes.

Also, many of the current crop have "3D" sized control surfaces with very thick wings, meaning that they don't do either pattern or "3D" particularly well. The Showtime is a case in point. Pretty airplane, but it doesn't do anything particularly well, and I'm not the only one saying it. Pattern sized control surfaces, please. A setup manual for the budding pattern flyer would be nice also. But the Showtime is a good example of how light things can be mass produced with traditional materials.

People ask me all the time what airplane to start with, and frankly, I'm at a loss. Most of them seem to have a 91 four stroke or don't choke at the prospect of getting one, but few have much of anything larger.

Jon Lowe

Well, there certainly seems to be a bit of undercover market research going on here JAS so... if you're thinking of getting into the market, here's something to think about:-
Theres a great deal of difference between what the market wants and what the market needs!

It's quite clear that what the market wants is .90 sized pattern planes for much of the reasons already stated above and there are indeed several to choose from. In fact there hardly seems to be one months that passes without somebody offering yet another remodeled or re branded China made "F3A type aerobatic model" for your .90 sized engine! What he market actually NEEDS is something one size up. The 1.20-1.40 size.
Todays F3A wide bodies designs are designed to be powered by todays serious and expensive motors... a 1.60DZ or their even more expensive electric equivalent. Sure they can be "flown" on the older type engines, a 1.40FZ or similar but their physical size demands far more power as you're well aware. That leave us with a challenge... what does one do with all those old yet wonderful engines?
Supply the pattern market with something that's one serious step up from the .90 "hobby" pattern models yet one step below the F07 design influenced 1.60's!
There's a huge gapping hole waiting for somebody to fill. They wont get rich.... but they will be given a standing ovation!

Elation Models in the UK do one, its approx. 69" in both directions if I remember, and 9lbs give or take a bit. It was intially intended for 1.10 use, but a YS1.40FZ was found to be perfect with proper use of throttle

Apparently a bit over 8lb with the lighter motors:

http://www.modelactivitypress.com/ami_framesetpl.htm

I think it would be a bit too heavy for a 90, but any of the older 120-140 size motors would do very well with it.


Mark

Cheers for that and I'm sure it's very nice... but what what I'm talking about is a real Class Act... a 1.20-40 model designed by a named and world ranked pro.
Come on JAS... get your pen out. I bet you've a pile of old 1.40 FZ's laying around.

Buy the rights to the Focus line and offer it as a kit/arc/arf and you'll have a winner.

I have a Zen 90 - Magnum 91 2-stroke with performance specialties muffler - APC 15x8 on 15% - unlimited vertical - and my mentor can do the whole Masters sequence with it. But the bigger birds fly better and present better. Have a Zen 120 (now on sale for $399 - down from $599) under construction. On the 90 sizes I use the same servos that are used in a 140, not for high torque values but for accuracy and centering.


Best regards and good flying,
mike

PS - you may see Focus IIIs in the near future

How many active, competing pattern pilots are there in the US? A few hundred maybe?

I bet that the smaller planes are more widely used by people informally flying pattern and those that aspire to begin competing. But among the ones that actually compete I bet the true 2M planes and probably the 1.40 engines are the most popular. Thats my guess. I know we make all of the contests in Texas and Louisiana and try to make Pensacola and I see about 90-95% 2M planes at the contests we make. Out of 30-40 pilots you usually only see 1 or 2 that are 90 sized and 1 or 2 60 sized the rest are 2M.

oops, double post

OK, so what are the "correct" parameters for the "perfect" 120-140 size plane. It's been awhile since I've flown with a YS-140. Last thing I remembered I liked a lot was my Dr. Jekyll. But it flew fine on an 120AC. Should it really be a widebody? I would imagine it should be electric compatible... Anything else? Tunnel or covered? Retracts or fixed-gear... what am I going to forget to look at?

Yee Gods... no need to get a retro jive going... certainly no retracts.
No voodoo science with the other parameters either... top modern, upto date thinkings incorporating the European tall body/small wing approach. Just smaller.
And no real need for any of that composite nonsense. MHester has been achieving astonishing things with some balsa and a block of foam on his Black Magic v2!