hello

I am intrested in building a f3a biplane, are there any plans avialable or 3 view can any one help me out, i love f3a bipes.

Highfly3D.

You're very brave--it's enough trouble sorting out an O/D monoplane!
Chip Hyde's Scandalous and the Onda bipe by Naruke are the only recent ones which spring to mind---even the mighty CPLR's Suxess didn't live up to its name for long.
Have you looked at the Fliton Rogue 3D Bipe? It's only a little electric thing, but its proportions look right for scaling up to F3A, and the thin wing section looks trendy too.
And I've seen it fly in the hands of a fairly average club pilot, and it's certainly smooth.

I am going to begin a thread about a month after NATS. It will be a wooden roach bipe. It is basedon the Insight ( www.insightrc.com ) which i am currently flying. You can see some 3 view drawngs in the electric forum under the scandulous thread.

I am not the designer so i cant offer you the plans but will keep you posted. they may be available for purchase after the protoype flies.

good luck.

Chuck Hochhalter

Didn't OK models of Japan kit Chip's Double Vision - as an all wood KIT not an ARF? Anybody build one or see the kit? I think I remeber reading (in the K-Factor) that Bob Noll built one from the kit (he was on the cover with it).

Ridiculously expensive Kit. Chip didn't lke the plane much as a pattern plane.. hence the new scandulous.

there were some old school plans you could enlarge to 2 meter maybe, the Flea or something like that.

Chuck

Stupid question here - why bother with a biplane for pattern, given the issues with building to the 5kg limit and trimming out the well known pitch and roll coupling problems? Don't get me wrong, I love biplanes, but not for pattern. It is well established that a 2m monoplane with around 950sqin of wing and either 1.40-1.60 glow or electric power can be built (relatively) easily to the weight limit and will perform the current schedules about as well as can be expected of a device that is an inherent compromise in design requirements. So why a biplane?

Just wondering, that's all.


Mark

If you want I have plans of a pattern plane that I design, the files are .DWG(autocad). The plane has a WS of 1000mm, but you can enlarge them up to F3A measurements. If you want the plans send me an e-mail.

Hello
I discussed with CPLR about his biplane Suxess and compared it to his monoplane.
He told me, it's better in snap roll, rolling. But in wind it's more difficult to pilot.
Why not biplane, if you like the look ?
Claude

Interesting info. That is why I was asking, to see if there was a performance advantage that justified the extra work in a bipe. No reason not to build one if you like them (I do, the Ultimate bipe is one of my favorite planes), but they present extra challenges that need to be justified for a performance based design like a pattern plane.


Mark

Hello Mark
I aggree with you, it's more complicate to design, to build and set up biplane.
I think it's why there is only few biplane in contests. See some exemples of biplane.
I like their look. My favorite is Double Vision and Suxess and you ?
Claude

Someday.....someday....it may fly like crap....but I will build it.....someday.......just can't say no to bipes.

Hey Mark,

What are you using for span and area on this one? I am curious what the various pattern bipes do for area/loading/span compared to monoplanes, because the bipe will typically pack more area into less span. Ignoring the 2M box, 5kg limit and bigger presenting better, etc.


Mark

Mark,

As sketched, I have about 1300 sq. in. I don't think the large area hurts so much as how it is distributed (center of lift) and how much drag comes along with it.



-mark

The bipe has to carry more area to make up for the increased induced drag and generally less efficient aerodynamics, so I don't think it will hurt at all. I forgot to mention last night that it looks like a boxy Waco cabin bipe!

But, build it and I might have to try one as well, just because...


Mark

These guys do one.
Link is here.
http://www.camodel.com.ar/Ingles/models1.htm

Hope this helps.

As has been said. You are very brave. Takes me all my time sorting one wing out.

Just a thought - how would a Bucker Jungmann fare at this? I have talked to Dick Hanson about the 29% version he did for the TOC years ago and he mentioned it is a very true flying plane with little pitch or roll coupling on rudder. The Goldberg Bucker (64.75" span, 1152sqin) reportedly had very little coupling as well. A slightly enlarged version (maybe stretched some as well, it is only 57.5" long) of the CG model would be manageable to build to 11lb and should be a great flying, great looking model that would be at least competent at F3A sequences.

Am I out to lunch on this or not?


Mark

Hi there,

Just remembered that Ralf Paehl made Biplane plans called [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1794647/anchors_1795506/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#1795506]KaZoom[/link]

Drop him a line, maybe you get plans from him...