What I'm trying to say is that, in my view, the weight and size rules are not there as "equalizers" but as boundaries to be exploited to the limits of technology and the abilities of the pilots and builders. Some people have the opposite view. Unfortunately the rule writers have not provided a "rationale" section to help us decide their intent, so we are left to guess (and debate).

I agree with "dry" weight less fuel or batteries- then electrics would have the same window to have ballast if desired for function or to keep costs down. What does a average battery weigh? I assume a full tank of gas would weight about 16 oz., are batteries comparable?

No, batteries are much heavier; TP5000's are 2.7 lbs. And everything else is much lighter. So to keep 5kg across the board and weigh electrics w/o batteries I believe would have a significant impact on future designs.

Interesting perspective Derek...and if that is the intent, then I agree and builder beware. I'll check with the AMA to see if they have an archive of rule proposals...

I'm not sure when this was introduced, but any proposals today to must answer "Logic behind proposed change, including alleged shortcomings of the present rules. State intent for future reference."

Looking at this issue from the technology viewpoint: won't the current rules 'encourage' the development of lighter batteries which would be the ideal solution. It does not seem fair, but if the rules are changed what would be fair? Allowing unlimited 'fuel' weight?

Sometimes it's best for the rules committe to just stay with existing rules and let technology 'level' the playing field. The difficulty in convincing anybody to change the rules in this case is that electrics flying under the existing rules are VERY competitive.

2 more cents...

The fact of the matter is that the technology is moving towards more powerful batteries that actually weigh more. I actually believe that the current rules are stiffleing the development of electric models. As IC motors increase in power and fuel consumption increases the flyer fits a bigger fuel tank. Witness the increase in tank size when the DZ motors came along. We electric flyers don't have this luxury unless we can reduce our airframe weights.

The effect of this is a) limited flight times, fly the schedule and land - no practicing the figures you got wrong and b) eventually the IC models will outstrip us in the power department because we can't use the more powerful electric stuff coming along.

I love my electrics and won't go back but the rules need a tweak.

Malcolm

I guess that the best answer would be a RTF weight, i.e. all models must weigh under 12 lbs with fuel or batteries.
However would electrics complain that the glow guys have an advantage by losing weight duing the flight? Would glow guys cry foul because thier planes lose weight duing a flight? Would a higher takeoff weight help the guys that want to try petrol because they don't need as much fuel as the glow planes, allowing a slightly heavier motor? It seems to me that this rule would help to level the field, and keep the current designs competitive and keeping the bipes out.