Some time ago, TS Composites announced their collaboration with Patrick Lemonnier and their intention to produce and market a number of PLP F3A aircraft including the Axial, Onyx and Lazulite.

Back in July, I was also informed that they were intending to set up a new manufacturing facility to produce an improved version of their deservedly successful TS version of the Oxalys. They were hoping that a white kit would be available in August and that the fully coloured ARTF version would follow in September or October.

Since these announcements things seem to have gone quiet and there have been no recent updates to the TS Web Site – www.tssoccoop.com/composite.

I know of several pilots who are waiting for information before taking a decision on their winter building project.

Anyone know what’s happening?

Bob Wasson

Check www.patricklemonnier.com

Bob, have you tried contacting their UK agents?


UNITED KINGDOM

ELATION MODELS (UK)

Address: Unit D3, Armthorpe Enterprise Centre,
City: DN3 3DY - Doncaster - UNITED KINGDOM
Phone Nr.: 00 44 1302 300566
Fax Nr.: 00 44 1302 882903
Credit Cards: VISA, MASTERCARD, AMEX
Notes: Aerobatics, retail, manufacture, building.

After Market Service: REPAIR - PAINTING - MOUNTING - TEL. SUPPORT
Stock levels: good

E-mail: [email protected]

http://www.elationmodels.co.uk/


ISLAND HOBBIES (UK)

Address: No 1 Clos de L'Ancienne Forge
City: JE3 3DS - La Rue des Buttes - St. Mary - Jersey - UNITED KINGDOM
Phone Nr.: 00 44 7797 729776
Fax Nr.:
Credit Cards:
Notes:

After Market Service:
Stock levels:

E-mail: peter@islandhobbies

http://www.islandhobbies.co.uk/

Aresti,

I have tried Patrick's Web Site but I couldn't find any further information there either.

Jeff,

Our local UK Agent - Elation Models - is excellent. However, agents don't seem to have any more information than customers.

Thank you both anyway for you replies.

Bob

Hi

In our French forum "forum F3a" Patrick explained problems he has with TSComposite.
Patrick received somes pics of fuse of Onyx and said quality is no good. TS Composite said to Patrick that mould of Onyx is twisted.
So patrick kept his Axial Mold.
http://www.f3a.fr/

Papone,

Thank you for your reply. It is very sad that the relationship between TS and Patrick appears to be strained but I am not entirely surprised. The silence from TS Composite was deafening.

It still leaves the question as to whether TS are still intending to produce the improved version of the Oxalys, and if so, when.

The original TS Oxalys was an excellent aeroplane. The finish was outstanding and the price was very competitive. It was probably the most popular F3A model on the UK circuit in 2007. However it did have a number of early “teething problems” which were well documented in earlier RC Universe threads. Most of these were minor and fairly easy to put right. However they were frustrating for the customer and I was pleased when TS announced that the problems had been drawn to the attention of their Production Manager and that plans were well in hand for a Mk 2 version to be produced.

I know of several UK pilots - myself included – who would be keen to purchase the TS Mk 2 Oxalys as their winter project. I also know of several who were interested in a TS Lazulite or Axial.

In the interest of their worldwide customers – and their suppliers - I think the time has come for TS to make a clear statement on their future plans. I will therefore send an E-Mail to Sergio Castellani (TS Marketing Manager), referring him to this thread and inviting him to reply.

I hope that Sergio’s reply will be positive. TS have the potential to be an excellent manufacturer and I and others would like them to succeed.

Bob

Sergio responded to my E-Mail first thing this morning.

He acknowledged that there had been some difficulties in the relationship between TS and PL. He indicated that further discussions between TS and PL would be required before TS would be in a position to make any formal statement.

In his E-Mail, Sergio made no reference to my question about the status of a Mk 2 TS Oxalys. I have sent him a further message asking him to comment on this specific issue. I will update this thread if any further information is received.

Bob

Dear Bob;

The “teething problems” that you report are some delamination in the composite material of stabilizer? I suffer this problem in the 6th flight of my Oxalys and it crash. I was send two e-mails to Sergio Castellani in July but not reply, only Spanish TS distributor say me that TS do not accept any claim because structural failure in flight. As you understand I am not satisfied with TS Oxalys, I need to work a lot to build it and replace many parts for a lighter ones to have the maximum weight advertised by TS! But the worse is that not any reply to my claims, not after sales service, only I have a tail to remeber my Oxalys.
Alfonso.

Dear Alfonso,

I am very sorry to hear about your loss. It is always very sad to lose a good model.

As I mentioned earlier, TS Oxalys were probably the most popular F3A model in the UK during the 2007 season. All of the models flew very well and were highly competitive. In general, the quality of the composite work was very good and I am not aware of any structural failures. I think therefore that you have been very unfortunate. Indeed, with the exception of the U/C legs (see below), the “UK” models have proven to be extremely robust and, barring accidents, should last for a very long time. With YS160 Dingos, most of the models weighed around 4.85 to 4.9 kg. This was slightly heavier than the TS advertised weight of 4.7 kg but still comfortably within the 5 kg FIA limit.

The main “teething problems” that I referred to were:

## Wing Incidence – it was necessary to fit 3 mm packing under the leading edge of the wing to correct an error in the fuselage moulding

## Tail planes – there was a gap of around 3 mms between the leading edge of each tailplane half and the fuselage sides

## Undercarriage legs – the long electric size U/C legs started to delaminate after around 50 flights from a grass field

## Tailplane incidence adjusters – the grub screws came loose in the alloy blocks due to vibration. Nylon blocks (as per Gator) would have been better.

## Steel wing mounting bolts – also unscrewed due to vibration. Nylon bolts would have been a better choice.

Although these problems were frustrating, they were all fairly easy for the customer to correct. Some of the problems should also be straightforward to put right at source. Others (incorrect wing incidence and poor tailplane fit) would require modification to the composite moulds, and I accept that this could have a significant effect on profit margins on a relatively low volume product.

In reality, unless a customer is willing to pay a very high price, it is extremely difficult to produce a 2 metre F3A model that is totally fault free. This is especially true of composite models because of the complex manufacturing processes involved. For this reason, I would not wish to damage TS’s reputation. TS has produced a good product that is very close to being excellent. However TS has also been aware of the teething problems for a very considerable time and has vowed to put them right. With the 2007/8 building season upon us, TS now owes it to its customers (and agents!) to make a clear statement about if and when the necessary improvements will be introduced. Should TS decide to postpone the improvements on cost or other grounds, potential customers would then be able to decide whether to live with the known problems or to take a risk with a different set of problems in another product!

Good F3A manufacturers are few and far between. TS Composite has the potential to be excellent. I for one wish them well and hope that their balance sheet gives them the necessary leeway to turn a good product into a great one.

I look forward to another message from them soon!

Bob

Dear Bob;
Thanks for your reply, I had the problems that you explain except the U/C legs, my Oxalys only last six flights! For your reference my Oxalys weight 4.750grs with 110 grs.battery and OS 140RX-FI Hattori pipe after replace fuselage bulkheads, wing screws, and use carboon canopy, but when I buyed my Oxalys TS web page shows 4.5 to 4.7Kg weight!
I do not like to damaged TS reputation, but I am involved in RC bussines for more than twenty years and I think that almost a reply is need when one customer have troubles with your products and tell you. I am not looking for a free model, even if some times I did it in my RC company with similar problems, but they are many ways to satisfie customer.

Thanks for your reply and good flights. Alfonso.

Yesterday I was visit Oxay factory in Shanghai, but Oxay airplanes are too much expensive for my pocket!

Dear Bob,
I also have TS Oxalys. Weight is 4.750 with YS160DZ. It fly well. Still like others I had to change parts to reduce weight.
I want to understand better your suggestion of 3mm at the wing LE. It is possible to call you? Can you advise your phone number.
Amram Leshed
F3A Israel

Amram,

It was good to talk to you.

I have sent you a personal E-Mail containing the link to the Peter Goldsmith article.

Regards

Bob