No this has nothing to do with a salad.

I'm just trying to get the proper setup to have nice crisp snaps.

At the moment my ship has a soft snap and the exit ins't clean it sort of wallows through the last 3/4.


I've thrown a bit of tailweight at it, and it's helped, but everything has to be on high rates to break but then when I ease off the elevator it spirals out, and doesn't look like a snap.


What should I be doing?

Rendegade,

What plane are you flying?

it's an own design, looks a little something like this.

Pretty airplane, Renegade.

Try to set up a snap condition on your ele stick. When it gets close to full up or down ele, it will automatically increases ail throws and decreases rud throws

Within reason, planes usually snap better with a more forward CG. The "soft" you describe definitely sounds like the CG needs to be moved forward, farther back makes a plane snap deeper and and is much harder to control.

It's different for every plane, but I would recommend a good bit of elevator, a little bit of rudder, and a lot of aileron. To actually do the snap, nail the elevator/rudder quickly and simultaneously (if anything just a hair after) pin the aileron all the way over. Once you hit the elevator, immediately come back to about half deflection or less and keep rudder and aileron in throughout the snap. To exit, release everything back to neutral but release elevator and rudder a hair before you come out of the aileron.

I wouldn't recommend setting up a condition to do it for you, that never seems to work nearly as well. It takes a bit of time/experimenting and a lot of practice, but your snaps will be much cleaner if you do them the way I just described verse pinning your stick in the corner then releasing them all at once and hoping it ends up well.

Btw, nice lookin plane! Love those blues.

So less rudder you reckon?

THe soft snap I'm talking about is a slow entry that deepens as you hold on the stick, but it doesn't take a lot of stick pressure to come of before you get something not unlike a barrel roll.

I tend to haul up first and then rudder,then aileron, and progressively reduce the up untill I'm almost out and keep it tracking with aileron. But as is, it's a hairline thing between snapped and "funny roll" If I put too much elevator, it'll snap in and deepen, and less it does the funny roll.

Frustrating to get a nice clean crisp FWOAR snap.

I should point out also that it doesn't over rotate very much either.

PS thanks Ryan

Brett,

How large are your deflections on elevator and rudder compared to "normal-flying mode" for snaps on your Integral ?

Renegade,

Ditto with brett ...
I`m telling my fingers the same also ... Hmm , I am still strugling with the right "stick-modulation" through the snap ... there are many things to be aware of like model-setup , airspeed , entry and exit position etc ..needs a lot of experience/practise for sure.

Kjell Olav

It's going to take a little bit of messing around, but I would try much more aileron, and maybe even a bit more rudder. If it's going into a barrel roll there's probably not enough aileron to get the wings around fast enough. If you're having trouble getting a clean break, a cg adjustment is probably in order.

Again, it's hard to diagnose over the internet. A lot of planes react differently and need different set ups depending on how they're trimmed. It just takes a lot of practice and tinkering.

Kjell,

I don't own an Integral, but I can't say what my deflections are compared to normal -- aside from that I've got more elevator, less rudder, and more aileron. However, the inputs and amount of input I give depend on the snap that's being performed, so it's not accurate to say that I use all of that deflection and in those proportions for every snap.

Rendegade,

Take a look at the wing's LE radius. If the radius is large, on order of 1/4 inch or so, the wing would benefit from stall strips. These don't need to be elaborate. Strips of 1/8" balsa, 1/2" wide and 12" long. Pin them to the wing's LE on edge, starting at the tip and working to the root. If you are happy with the result, then finish them out properly and make the installation permanent.

It also looks like you could be carrying more stab area than desirable for Pattern models. If it's more than about 25% of the wing, snaps will tend to wallow and be somewhat upredictable. Large stabs will tend to overstabilize an aerobatic model....but that's an oversimplification. There are several other factors that influence stability and stab % plays a major role. Suffice it to say that large stabs work great on trainers

MattK

Hmmmmmm . . the Integral has one of the largest horizontal stabs I have seen on a current era Pattern plane . . yet it snaps just fine (looking at Jason S and Andrew J's videos from the Nats).

I will confirm that in a couple of months (waiting, waiting).

Having said that . . it also has one of the lowest wing position . . one of the deepest fuse's . . and what looks like the most dihedral

Cheers, JB

Renegade,

What servos are you using on each surface?

It will snap easier, more effortlessly with a smaller stab. As far as wing position, more dihedral is appropriate because the correct dihedral eliminates roll coupling. Make the wing flat with a low wing position, and see what happens. The intangible about increased wing dihedral is the vertical component that the wing area introduces to the fuselage at the precise location where it will do most good. Rudder effectivenes is improved and knife edge flight enhanced. Subtle but important, and in the hands of an able practitioner, a winner.

MattK

Ryan, I have 2 X JR8231's on each half

On ALL surfaces?

Not all.

Sorry I thought you were talking about elevators!

8231's on ailerons and elevators.


8511 on rudder.

More dihedral may also make the plane roll with application of rudder, in the same direction as the rudder is applied. The correct dihedral is therefore required to eliminate roll coupling.

Magne