So yeah, I've really got the bug; been flying for just under 2 months, and I'm flying my second plane (Phoenix Dolphin), have my third on it's way (Phoenix Super Decathlon) and am thinking about my fourth. I'd love to get something that I could start using for pattern flying, and might be interested in building a kit this winter. I've read that Cap's, Sukoi's, Extras are OK to use for Sportsman's stuff, but should I be aiming at something different? I don't mind the looks of pattern planes with the exception of the Tracer - I'd rather not get that one[:'(] Or should I just stick with the Dolphin for my pattern stuff? From what I gather, it's best to have a long tail moment, and a fuse length about equal to wing span, but this is hard to find without getting a specific pattern plane.

Thanks for any suggestions...

Man - what a lot of choices there are.

What size do you want to go for (AKA - what sort of budget)?

something like the CMPro Swallow, the Leo or the World Models Groovy if you are prepared to go to a "60-90" size.
If you want to stay with "46 size" maybe the Blackhorse Super air is a good entry level in that size.

Then of course, there are a lot of great bargains in the second hand market too - check the RCU classifieds.

Beware - there are a lot of great choices out there and once you have flown that style of plane, you will be addicted to the (generally) great flying qualities of that style. Try to afford the best servos but there is no need to go overboard (For example - Ht 5955's would be a total waste on any of the planes mentioned above).

Your Decathlon should be able to get you started I have seen them used in the sportsman classes. Try to just get started and no doubt you wil lsee something you like at an event.

I am sure that there will be many other suggestions from others.

The Great Planes Venus II is working out very well for me. I was actually surprised at how nicely built is was and even more surprised at how well it flies.

Hi

My advise is always go for something that, if you do not like pattern flying (which we all doubt), you will be able to sell second hand very easy, even if it means spending a little more up front. This goes for radio, motor and airplane.

Burt

Thanks guys, feel free to keep 'em coming!

Nitroplanes.com has the Swallow and the Quest; both I really like. I like the Groovy 50 also (airbornemodels.com). I guess this covers .40 to .60 size, under $200. I don't have any experience with these vendors/brands, and I read that the firewall pulls off the Groovy 50 easily.

I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about size for a pattern plane, and also about engines (2 or 4 stroke, and do you generally stuff the biggest engine you can fit?) I don't want to go bigger than a .90 four stroke; I would LOVE a 75AX if you think this is a big enough engine, and if 2 stroke is OK (I have 46AX and 55AX).

Also what I'm hearing is don't bother with an Extra, Edge, Sukhoi, or Yak; definitely get pattern. Are the Phoenix Giles or Laser considered pattern ships? Both of them have lengths that are equal to or greater than the wingspan, and seem to have a pattern look. They're on the smaller side, but I like Tower and Phoenix.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0093p?&C=ACE

Thanks for the info.

Ok, learned today I definitely want 'bigger' and DEFINITELY want four stroke

Here is my suggestion

Great Planes Venus II with a YS 110 - that is a combination that is able to see you through.

The YS engines can be a little tricky to get sorted out but once they are done, they are great engines. The trick is to run them regularly - which is always a good excuse to fly

my venus with a saito 120

wow, this is getting a bit over my head ($250 plane, $350 engine). I just started flying less than two months ago an I'm in college[&o]

well, I guess I'll start saving, and getting what I can get when I can get it. I had another great day at the field today; a guy was helping me get creative with some routines. I love Cuban 8's, and I added a twist: instead of a half roll, I did a whole roll and did the second half with an outside loop. Not terribly technical, but definitely cool I really do want to get into pattern stuff, and would love to experience what a pattern plane feels like. There are NONE at my club, only 3D and sport.

I tried a 12" prop on my Dolphin with the 46AX. The engine hated that prop, but I sure as heck loved flying with it, so I see the need for a four stroke (swinging larger props). maybe by the end of the summer and when loan checks come out I can swing the Venus 2 and (an O.S.) four stroke.

Thanks for the suggestions, and thanks for the pic; planes always look better in real photographs/in person than they do on the websites.

I could do the CMPro Swallow and a .90 four stroke...

Yes
Or you could also use the 75AX 2 stroke. 2 Strokes aren't necessarily a big no-no. And for the OS, you can get pipes etc for them too (Important as you move up the grades and are forced to comply with the noise regulations).

I started with a Swallow and a Saito 1.25 that I had laying spare. It was overpowered with that engine.

There are a bunch of threads on the Swallow here. Do a search - there are a few tips on making them better and a bunch of suggestions for the engine.

Thanks. I love the AX series, so it's nice to know I could at least get it do work for me. I might be able to swing a four stroke, or at least the 75AX on the 3pay system at Tower, and get a pattern ship in a few weeks/month and a half or something.

I really, really want one! (I got it bad, haven't even got my new plane in the mail yet!)

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it.

A long tail really helps in a first pattern model. For a not-too-expensive model, the Cermark Javelin II is hard to beat. Review here on RCU http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=218. I had the good fortune of being coached into pattern, and the Javelin was my coach's demo modelhis third copy of this plane, even though he was flying a 2M for competing. It was a natural for me to move to the Javelin as my second competition model, and it sure does fly like a pattern plane. I found I could get it to slow roll like it was strung on a wire. Very smooth in big loops. After five years, I'm putting together my second Javelin, and sold my spare to a buddy who I'm now coaching. YS 63 makes a good powerplant for this model, but I'm sure the Shark 52 as used in the RCU review would be good as well.

I have flown the Swallow, liked it very well, and have another in a box that I will put together one of these days. YS 110 powered. Quest II also makes a great entry model, same YS110 power. I had a great time flying the Venus I with a YS63, and the Venus II with YS110 or OS 120AX now has a great following.

My club has a pattern meet coming up July 12 & 13 in Hudson, NH. If you can make one of those days, you'd have an opportunity to see a lot of pattern models in action, talk to the pilots, see and learn more in one day than in a hundred hours of forum discussion. PM me for details if you like, or go to http://www.ne-aero.com/gspa.html.

A Super Tigre .75 would be less expensive and just as powerful.

Maybe look at an Excelleron 50 with a .61 or .75 engine. $150 for the plane and less than $100 for a ST .61/.75. Some folks equate 'pattern plane' with strict competition. Doesn't have to be that way in the beginning. Lower classes, like you'll be flying at first, don't require huge expenditures to enjoy or even win.

Terry in LP

I just followed the link to nitroplanes.com, and see they have the Fascination on sale at $79, which is a screaming bargain in my book. I bought one, but sold it to someone who begged me for it before I got it built. He sold it to a third guy, who flew it and loved it and he was a highly capable aerobatic flyer. http://www.nitroplanes.com/newfaf3aarfa.html (Plane in the picture says "Falcon," but webpage calls it "Fascination.")

Thanks again for all the input. Sounds like a 2 stroke is definitely OK to use for a while. Wouldn't be competing this year (probably) and only doing Sportsmans next year, so two stroke sound shouldn't be a problem.

I think I'll fly the wings off my Dolphin while I save up a few bucks and get a smaller pattern plane and transfer stuff from the Dolphin to the pattern plane while I fly my Decathlon. When I get enough $$$ for the biggest four stroke that will fit (hopefully to use in a later .60-.90 size), I'll put the AX back in the Dolphin. Sounds like I got a plan

Nothing wrong with a 2-stroke. Less parts to break and easy to set up. I fly the OS 160 in my 2-meter Pattern ships. If money is a little tight right now, I would recommend the Venus 2, OS 120AX with the stock muffler and some good coreless servos or maybe even the Futaba 3152 digitals. They're not too expensive (about $30.00 each). You can use a precision mini servo for the throttle - saves weight and $$$. A Venus 2 is fine for Sportsman and even Intermediate. You don't need anything too fancy yet. Simple is better at this point. Get something that's reliable and fly it as much as possible. When you get some experience flying Pattern you'll have a better idea of what defines a "good" airplane. At that point you may want to pick up a used 2-meter bird. Pattern planes usually last a long time so a used airplane is a viable option. The Venus is fine for now though, and the build quality is pretty good since it's from Great Planes. It's covered with Monokote so you can repair it easily should you have a mishap AND the covering will stay on. Some of the Asian ARFs have really poor quality covering. There may be other lower cost alternatives but I've personally flown a Venus 2 so I speak from experience. Two of my students are flying them in Intermedaiate now after a successful campaign in Sportsman last year. They both moved up after their first year and they're still flying the same airplanes.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic

I have a CAMODEL's Epsilon 40 with a 46 AX, and I got myself an Epsilon 90 last week. I would love to put a YS110 on it, and I thinks this would be a terrific configuration.

But if you are tight on budget, I would go with the Epsilon 90 and a OS 90 FX or even better an OS 120AX on it. There is one on my field with a 120AX and it is amazing.

If you are not into building, you may ask for the ARC or ARF versions, but the kit is very easy to build, really. I took me two hours to get the Epsilon 40 fuse aligned and ready.

Quite easy to fly also.

Regards