When I first got the Dolphin it was in a cartwheeling accident, which separated the front half of the plane from the rear, just behind the canopy. My LHS offered to help me fix it since it was my first repair job. He made me feel like it would never be perfect, so he wouldn't listen to me say it was not perfectly straight. The rear of the plane is maybe 3 degrees off to the side, and 2 degrees down.

I have the plane trimmed so it flies pretty straight, though today I noticed that it looks kind of like it's crabbing when it flies. I know you can't see the plane to really tell, and I don't have a camera, but how much would this affect me performing pattern moves? I'm going to investigate some more this week, because I just realized that knife edges going one way might be turning up way toward the sky, and going the other way takes 100% of my rudder throw (again, this is just a hunch...)

What do you think, and what do you think I should do? I do have another plane (Super Decathlon) coming on Monday.

Thanks. I know this isn't the beginner's forum, but I'm concerned with the way it flies beyond beginner flying (obviously).

Thanks pros!

Chalk it up to experience and get another plane, it will never fly straight and that is what you need to fly precision. You have enough to do without having to fight the plane.

If you want to fly pattern with that plane you need it straight unless you want to have to compensate for a bent airframe. If you just want something to burn holes in the sky with don't worry about it.

Seriously, you have a new plane arriving Monday that will do the Sportsman sequence. The best thing you can do is burn fuel practicing. If you don't want to compete with the Decathalon then get another low wing plane or find someone who can break you Dolphin's tail off an put it on straight. I doubt anyone will tell you that the Decathalon would be inapproiate for Sportsman. Go practice and have fun. If the bug bites you (and it will) save up and buy a new plane for next year..

That's just my $1.98 ($.02 adjusted for inflation)

Close isn't good enough in pattern competition. As in any other trimming question, if your plane doesnt fly straight, and your opponents does, you will end up doing more work to fly just as well as he does. If you have another plane coming, I'd use that one. You could cut the tail off and straighten it and that would help as well,

Arch

Ok - cat amongst the pigeons time.

I totally agree with all of the previous replies given BUT

I know it is your first pattern meet coming up (is it this weekend or next weekend?).
If it is next weekend, try to get the Decathlon finished, maidened and sorted before the meet. (they don't take long to build - a couple of nights could see it done) Otherwise - take the dolphin and go have some fun. you are familiar with how it flies and You know it has a problem with regard to straightness but you will also be a bit nervous because of it being your "first time". Don't worry too much about your score at the first meet - just get the valuable experience from it.

"Journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step" - you will be as addicted as we are before you know it. (actually - it seems you are already on the way to that).

Thanks guys. I'm really thankful for the new plane coming. I've got to work out of town for a few days this week; definitely don't have time to get the Decathlon ready for (a week from today!) my first competition, let alone get used to it's flight characteristics (as was just pointed out to me in the beginner's forum, it's only been a few weeks since I solo'd. I forget that sometimes)

I guess what I asked was a loaded question. I'm having a hard time keeping the plane straight, and it seems to just fly a little funny. Of course, it burns beautiful holes in the sky, but I don't think the plane is portraying my flying capabilities properly. I didn't know how much I could write-off to the plane being 'out of square', but from this post it sounds like quite a bit; that makes me feel better.

Maybe when the Decathlon's ready I'll take the Dolphin apart and try to square it up, and re-cover it. Or I could just buy a new plane and use all the gear from the Dolphin
"What's that? Did you say something about a Venus? No? Oh, funny, I thought I heard you say to ditch the Dolphin and buy a Venus. I must be hearing things."

Anyway I guess I'll fly the Dolphin as-is for this one.

Thanks guys.

Well, the good news is there are no knife edge passes in the sequence you will be flying. Straight flight out, straight flight back...as long as the wings are level and the CG is tracking straight, you're good!

You may have to work a little harder to keep it on track so consider it a training aid to actually using rudder.

See you in Hudson!

Scott

Ok, I'll do it. You might want to try a Venus II. They are a great flying plane.

John VB

That's what I was thinking

The real problem is in pulling vertical. I can keep the plane tracking in straight lines, but it has to be pointed to the side a little. Pulling into vertical pulls it off to one side. But yes, rudder control should be able to help that.

For my next plane I'm definitely thinking about it. I'm gonna fly my Dolphin up through the competition, then give this some serious thought (when the Decathlon is flying). The Venus 40 is at the top of my 'wish list' at Tower, especially because I can gut the Dolphin and use everything (servos, engine) from that.

I still have a lot to learn, and really still need to practice things like (landing?). I just need stick time, so the Dolphin might be nice to keep around to beat on some more, and save my other planes.

I love the looks of the Nitromodels Quest 50, but the covering and build quality of Great Planes is definitely pulling me in that direction.

Ok...Be a bit careful in your assessment...To fly straight and level you must be honest with yourself...

My personal experience with this was very interesting. I belong to a very small club and was considered one of the better pilots (ok...for those that know me, it's a very small club...LOL )

I thought I was good until I went to my first contest...I practiced all the wrong things for three years and I could never get my plane to trim well, pulled to the left...sound familiar... I couldn't put enough right thrust to compensate for the huge pull to the left... I knew my plane was built straight as I'm a perfectionist to a fault (an ARF will take me months trying to make it look good and be straight).

I agreed to meet Mark Atwood at the contest and he would help trim my plane. He flew it through some pretty amazing maneuvers landed it and said, yep...It just needed a click of right trim...He followed on with, "Your problem isn't the plane"...Time to be humble and honest with my self...[]

My problem was -my straight and level wasn't straight and level-...It looked level from the ground, but the wing closest to the runway was actually low...Mark worked with me as well as others until I could recognize straight and level...Now pulling to a vertical is much easier and when I miss, I know why...Again being honest with my self, the wings weren't level...

Now the morale of the story...Your airframe being crooked could cause this and I'm not smart enough to explain them all...However, be honest with your self assessment in flying straight and level...You may only need to adjust your perception of the plane being wings level viewed from the ground...

Larry Diamond

Larry, I'm totally with you on this one. I'm debating whether or not to fly in this competition; will definitely go and bring my plane for some free flying afterward, and hopefully hear some pointers from other experienced pilots.

I don't know what straight and level looks like. I understand I should see the bottom of the inside wing. I honestly don't know how much is due to the crooked plane, and how much is due to straight up pilot error. I wish I had someone to work with and could tell me if its me or the plane (probably is me) and give me a pointer on how to fix whatever I'm doing. There are other guys at my field who need real training on how to get solo'd, and I want the instructors to have some fun flying time too, it's not all about me-I understand that.

I do know that flying directly over my head the plane looks like it's flying in a straight line, but not in line with the plane. One thing that is totally consistent is when doing a vertical up line, 1/4 loop to vertical, 1/4 loop to horizontal - the plane almost makes a 90 degree turn to the right; problem lying mostly with the outside loop, some with the inside loop, but it's the same every time I do it. At least I now can compensate with stick control.

Thanks for all the advice; Decathlon should be up and running in a few weeks, probably to prove that it's me and not the plane.

gaRCfield...

My advice would be to go to the contest if for nothing else to gain more knowledge and meet new friends. Take your Dolphin with you and have someone look at it. I learned more in one contest than I did in three years of teaching myself. It's the little stuff that makes a big difference in the learning curve.

I would be willing to bet that you will find out if you are flying straight and level. You can also ask one of the seasoned pilots, I know they will help out here...Get one of them to fly your plane and they can tell you how bad it is. You may even find out that it's not as bad as you thought.

I know some of the guys posting about straight plane and other advice, I agree with everything they say as some were those that helped me out.

If this was a horse I was betting on, I would bet that your plane will fly well enough to get through Sportsman AND you will find a great deal of help in sorting out trimming and getting great coaching to improve on the next contest.

Once you attend your first contest, you know what you need to work on and watching all the other planes, you will start to get a good feel for straight and level to know what it looks like...

Good luck and get to a contest...I will promise you will not fly any worse than I did at my first contest provided you can take off, land, and keep the plane in front of you safely, then you should do alright. Get there early and ask someone to call for you and offer some advice during practice flights...Even if you decide you need more stick time to compete you will enjoy the experience of a contest and meeting new friends. (I think you are fairly new to the sport if I recall your other posts correctly...)

LD

Hey gaRCfield

I couldn't agree more with absolutely every single poiint that that Larry wrote in his last post.

Get out there - look, listen and learn - you might be amazed at what you pick up and the friends you will meet. You seem like a flier that is prepared to listen - take advantage of that quality and before you know it you'll be one of the "seasoned ones" giving the latest newbie advice and encouragement.

You're saying I should still compete though, right? Or just go to learn and fly afterward...

Ok -

Hear are my thoughts.

I say go into the competition part and enjoy yourself.

I believe that your main aim (especially at the moment) is to only compete against yourself. Try to do better each outing.

Don't think of your first one as a "competition" - think of it as the steep part of the learning curve. Get there early, do some practice - get some help. (as LLD suggested). If you are way too nervous - don't go into the competition part but spend the time to observe instead. If you do go into the competition part, you will be judged - those judges will give you a pretty darned good indication of your weaknesses and where you need to practice. (you should practice it all anyway). It will also give you the chance to ask others what it all means.

Turn up - be prepared to fly and learn - I personally think you'll never llok back with disappointment. Pattern guys are a great bunch of guys. (as are all RC flyers generally).

Oh yes - don't forget to wear sunscreen and a good hat - that is my other advice

As long as you can takeoff and land safely and keep the airplane on line a hundred or so meters if front of yourself, by all means fly. I’ll be at Hudson this weekend and will be happy to show you the ropes and call for you.

Scott

Thanks guys. I'll bring my plane and see what happens. I definitely am not expecting anything other than a learning experience (not really expecting a 'competition' out of myself, just to see where I'm at and how to improve). I'd have to watch a few other pilots to get the hang of a hundred meters, but other than that I should be fine.

Hope to see ya there, Scott!

Joe

Joe,

Enjoy your contest. Scott is a really great guy. You will learn a lot and make some new friends.

Pete

I'm really looking forward to it

Joe,
I didn't realize you're in District 1 too. Cool. By all means, go to the contest, bring your airplane and talk to Scott and the other guys. Scott is a master builder and he was also the District 1 Intermediate champion in 2004 and the District 1 Advanced champion in 2005. He placed in the top 3 in Advanced at the Nationals in 2006 too I believe. He knows his stuff. If you do nothing else but go there and talk to the guys, then consider it a valuable experience. DO NOT feel pressured to fly in the contest and place in the top 3. It's too early to have such expectations. On the other hand, if you feel comfortable enough to fly, give it a shot. As long as you can fly the airplane safely, you really have nothing to lose. So what if you don't bring home a trophy. Big deal. There's always another contest coming up. I won't be at the New Hampshire contest this weekend because I've decided to stay home and practice for the Nationals. I'll be at the rest of the D1 contests this year though (Sayre, Pattern in Paradise and Oasis). See you there.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic

Thanks John.
It looks like I have to investigate more about what the district 1 is; I'd love to catch more than just this one meet. I certainly don't expect any kind of trophy this weekend; all I hope for is not to embarrass myself. If I can actually do each maneuver when it's supposed to be done I would consider that HUGE. But we'll see where my nerves are at when I get there. I'm sure I'll be asking plenty of questions regardless. It sounds like I've found the right place though (pattern). I think anything worth doing is worth doing right, flying definitely included.

Joe,

Go to that first contest and fly. The first contest I went to last year, I simply watched, and I did learn a lot, but I should have flown in it. There is nothing to lose (unless you can't safely fly the plane). I had an UltraStick 40 at the time and was all over the place on my first contest, but ended up getting 3rd in that one (out of 5). You won't regret flying in it and you will learn so much more than by simply watching.

I keep hearing the 'unless you can't safely fly the plane'. Trying to fly pattern makes me feel like I don't know how to fly, probably because I really don't. I do know how to safely fly my plane; I've got over a hundred flights under my belt, and the worst thing that happens is I need to throttle up and re-do an approach. Just a reminder to self that I do know how to safely fly a plane

Joe,

Since I was the one that started that, I'll explain myself...You seem to be fair about your assessment of your flying. None of us have seen you fly. The reason we are stressing this is because people that judge sit right behind the pilot and another pilot is 100' down the runway. Normally two to four other pilots that judging and scribing sit behind the pilot flying. Like any AMA sanctioned contest safety is stressed.

You mentioned that you wanted more practice on landings in an earlier post and this got my attention...with out seeing you fly and a seemingly always possible 20 MPH crosswind, this could be a recipe for damaging your plane needlessly or having the plane end up in the pits. I'm sure many of us have seen this and you probably see it at your local field. None of us really know until we see you fly, so going back to my favorite phrase, just be honest with your assessment.

Landings are a judged maneuver...Always better to take the zero and go around than to force a landing and get a zero only to take the plane home in a bag...

Now for the upbeat side of things...Scott can certainly assess your skills and if he can call for you it really makes it easier on you with coaching you with stick inputs at the proper time to keep you calm during the round (judged flight).

I would say it is rare that folks solo and compete in the same year, but there are some that have done so successfully. You have done your homework and are probably more prepaired than most going to there first contest...

The reason for getting there early would be for Scott, if he can, to work with you and coach you so you don't panic during a flight...I'm normally a very cool customer and it takes alot to get me nervous...Flying in front of judges makes most nervous to some extent. Having confidents helps alot...For me on my forst contest round, my knees were knocking so bad I couldn't hold the transmitter still...

Please don't take it personal, we just want to make sure you know what to expect...and what is expected when you sign a piece of paper stating that you have flown the plane your competing with and can fly safely...

I'm sure you will be fine...Go and have fun...

For What It Worth...I have thought about bringing judges Hard Hats when I first started flying...Mostly joking around...I have made some judges nervous as well as the other pilots flying at the same time about 100' down the runway...I think I still do...LOL

Go to the contest and have fun...

LLD

Believe me, I don't take it personally at all! Things are not fun when they are not safe.

A few weeks ago, on my second day flying my first low wing plane, I landed with half the plane in the tall grass, and it cartwheeled and broke. I was up until 3 or 4 am every night for 2 weeks working on my plane, then was out bright and early on the weekend flying it. I made a bad judgment call - I got cocky and told myself I didn't need to line up over my shoulder. I was wrong.

My flying has actually changed quite a bit since then. I don't fly when I'm over tired. I don't rush, and if I find myself excited to get in the air I find someone else to talk to and stand by while they fly, to force myself not to fly excited. I try to plan out my moves, and if start to let the plane get ahead of me, I fly a pattern or two to calm down and relax. If I get spooked by traffic or disorientation, I do the same, or I bring it in and take a break.

I've practiced my landings over the past week-and-a-half, and people have been commenting on how smooth they have been. I spent a whole day shooting touch-and-go's in the wind, and as long as I (remember to) land on low rates, it's like landing on glass

I don't even know any of you guys, nor have seen a plane fly pattern, but I already have a ton of respect for all of you, and definitely wouldn't fly if I thought it was harmful to anyone. I have yet to fly the entire Sportsmans' routine, so that's the only area where I'd say I might not be ready. I think I've done every maneuver, and if not I will have by Saturday.

The other thing I have to work on is doing 1/4 loops and seeing how my plane reacts (back to the topic of this thread). I was doing this the other day and wasn't able to get a good straight loop when flying toward me or away from me. There didn't seem to be any wind, but up high things are different, but it seemed to always go to the plane's left when flying away from me, and to the plane's right when flying toward me. I have to pay more attention to see if it's my thumb slipping to the right, if it's the wind, or if it's the plane. Will be out of town for a few days, so maybe will get this done on Thursday.

Thanks for all the input guys.

Scott, I'm definitely going to take you up on any offers!!! Maybe we'll set up some PMing closer to the time of the meet.