Is there a list of recommended first pattern planes? I know I've heard some good recommendations but don't think I've seen them all in one place. There are some sites that talk about what kind of plane you need to fly pattern (don't necessarily have to have a pattern plane for Sportsmans, or even intermediate...) but I'd like to see a list of different planes that are good for a newcomer, with different sizes and price ranges included.

Personally after reassessing my situation I think the next step for me is to get a pattern ship that will fly with my 55AX but would appreciate a larger power plant in the future. I could then have something soon that I know I will love to fly, get to learn how to set up a pattern ship without having to worry about tuning a new (4 stroke?) engine at the same time.

Basic rule of thumb- Motors last longer than airframes

Either wait and get a plane and motor that will allow you to get started in pattern, or get an airframe that will allow you to fly well with the motor that you have. Any 50 size plane with "pattern proportions" should be fine... but it isn't going to fly like a full 2 meter pattern plane. You can't have both!

Anything (literally) can be set up to fly sportsman pattern- You need to begin learning how to set up, and trim an airplane for precision flight, then you need to begin practicing precision flight. Most novices either give up before they can fly straight and level at 150 meters parallell to the runway, or just skip that step and never get good at it. re-read what Arch Stafford told you.

I'll practice flying that line all day long, it's just hard with my crooked plane (plane flies like it's in a constant crow; need to rudder as you enter into a loop since plane doesn't point in the direction it flies, then need aileron while in the loop).

If you don't mind me asking, what is your total budget for the airplane?

I would start saving for something at least 1.10 size, maybe the focus sport or something. With the .55 at best you will be able to be competitive in sportsman, but even in intermediate you will have a hard time being competitive, no matter how well the plane flies. I am sure someone will say that Jason Shulman won an FAI contest last year with his .50 size plane, but Jason is the exception, not the rule. The smaller planes do not present near as well as even the .90 size planes. Another option is keep your eyes open for good deals and ask guys at contests. A lot of times, guys will have a full blown plane, engine, radio, everything that is 4 or 5 years old that you can pick up for a REALLY good price. Don't just jump on something smaller for a lot cheaper, just because its a "good" deal. You can put together a full blown Focus 1.10 for less than 900 bucks, and less than that for some of the other ones out there. I have personally flown a spot on 1.20 with an OS 1.60 and it flew really well. It would be competitive through advanced...No matter what though, make sure you save a little extra and put good servos in them. I keep hearing guys praise Hi tec stuff, but I have yet to see one center as well as Futaba, Airtonics or JR. The stuff is fine for the 40% stuff, but I don't think it is precise enough for 2 meter pattern planes. You definitely have the drive, just be careful not to get burnt out or set goals too high right away. Take your time, learn the right way, even if it means taking a 2nd or 3rd in contests..learning the basics will pay off in the long run. Find someone at a contest that is higher up in classes...and kind of stick to them...take note of what the top guys are running... I know a lot of the guys up in the NE and they are great guys. Find a couple of them and use them as mentors and ask questions of them. If you ask 10 guys you might get 10 different answers, but find one you trust and seems to be doing well with his equipment. If you fly Futaba, find a Futaba guy, JR or whatever. That way at least you stick with what you know and have..if you like OS engines, find a guy running an OS 1.60 two stroke setup or similar and talk to them. But talk to guys that are running what you are flying or want to fly. I used to run the OS 1.40RX engines, but have never run an OS 1.60 setup, and while I have a good idea of how it should work, I don't know the 1.60 setup well enough to truly tell someone about it. I just have them find a copy of Jon Lowe's cookbook for the OS. I'll be glad to help you out with anything I'm familiar with and point you in the right direction.

MOST IMPORTANTLY AND ABOVE ALL....HAVE FUN!!! WE ARE STILL PLAYING WITH TOY AIRPLANES...

Arch

Geez I'm exhausted and rambling on and on in this website. Nate you were right on the other thread, another plane right now is probably the worst idea I've had this year! I need to get things ironed out with what I have. I also need to go to bed!

Anyway I'd still love to see a list so I can plan out my first pattern plane. So far I found:

(Great Planes/Tower Hobbies) Venus 40, Venus II (The World Models/Airborne Models) Spot On 50, Groovy 50, (CMPro/Nitromodels) Swallow 90, Quest 50, Magpie 50, (Kyosho) Oxalys 50, Osmose 50 (GiantScalePlanes) Lark 70 [super heavy[&o]]

I would go with the Venus II ans OS 120fx

If you have any questions about the OS 1.60 setup let me know. I use it on my two meter and love it. It has enough power to fly the FAI stuff.

Take a closer look at the Focus Sport, the Spot-On 120, and the Venus II. Whatever you decide to do, PLEASE get an experienced pattern pilot help you assemble it. There are a lot of differences between assembling a sport model and a competition pattern model. "That looks about right" just doesn't cut it in pattern aircraft assembly.

Thanks. There's really no one here to help me out with one, at least not pattern pilots, and I don't think there are people who are that into setting up a plane perfectly. Maybe a smaller one is a good idea to start with for practice? I was thinking about this last night as I was fixing my Decathlon and playing with the incidence meter. I know some of the planes come with an adjustment, which sounds like it would be easier. It sounds like you guys don't suggest the smaller planes, and to be honest I don't really want a small plane. I'm gonna play with setups in my civic and plan a way to get a bigger plane stuffed in there. Maybe even try someone elses (fit) at Jackson.

I'm sure the Great Planes instructions are terrific. How are they for the Spot On, or other manufacturers? I was thinking that the Venus would be the best simply for this reason, but I'm really interested in the Spot On planes. I guess the Focus probably has good instructions too, and I like those better (looking) than the Venus.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_58...tm.htm#5830390

I did a build thread on the Spot-On 120.

Adrian

Another plane you might want to consider is the Epsilon from CA Model http://www.camodel.com.ar/. It's available in 3 sizes, .40, .90 and 1.20. Kit, ARC and ARF. I just finished building the .90 size kit and it's a great flier.

Dave

If you have to use the 55AX, then either the Epsilon 50 or Spot On 50, both are great and fly great, if there is not much wind they behave very well an as pattern of bigger proportions.

Smaller aircraft don't present as well and tend to be more 'fidgety' in the air. Will anybody at your club be willing to buddy box you on a large airplane? You'll feel the difference immediately. A large airplane is not always the way to go; especially for those starting out and/or those on limited budgets.

I guarantee that you can fit at least a 120 sized airplane in that Civic. Get creative. I've fit a 33%'er in a Ford Focus.

I personally have flown the Venus II and it did not fly near as well as the Spot on that I flew. I was honestly stunned by how well the Spot on flew with the OS 1.60. I wouldnt fly it with less than that though. The Focus is a shrunk version of a fully competitive airframe and it flies just like its bigger brother.

Your mentor doesnt necessarily have to be someone really close to you. Just someone you can sit and talk to at a contest you go to, or even someone you can reach once a month with a couple hours drive. There are a lot of knowledgeable guys up there that can help,

Also go to the NSRCA's site and join..and get a copy of the trim chart there, it is a good place to start for setting up a plane,

Arch

That's amazing!!! I'll check it out tomorrow. Right now I've got my focus on the CMPro Swallow 90 for my larger size pattern plane, as it is quite a few inches shorter than the Venus II (and looks better to me and is $100 cheaper!) This is mainly due to size restrictions in my car though; I don't want to risk damaging anything trying to stuff a big plane in a small car (along with all the extra crap a glow plane needs to go with it).

Would an OS 91 FX ringed be enough to pull the Swallow (like enough to have FUN with?) It's a half pound lighter than the Venus II, and people seem to like the 120 AX on the Venus.

One of my coaches had the Tsubame (rebadged Swallow) with a .91 FX and an ES pipe. He hated the plane
and got rid of it for $200 less RX. he recently built the Focus sport with an 120AX and it flies incredible.
I would have to say that in the Pattern World you get what you pay for.

Joe, I have seen a Masters pilot stuff a Vivat 2meter composite airframe in a Scion 2dr coupe. It fits in with no
damage. Also a friend of mine has fit his Icepoint 2meter into a Mazda MX3 hatchback.

Ok. I'm finding that I can still use my servos with a 6V battery, my receiver will be fine, so all I need is an engine and a plane. Will devise a plan to fit a bigger/full size plane, and will look into 120 AX or a 110 YS.

Definitely going to work on getting a plane over the winter; student loans (Sept. and Jan) and birthday and Christmas should about cover it.

Thanks to all you guys for putting up with my squirrilyness. I went back to the Dolphin today and had a blast with it. It is totally capable of flying sportsmans and has plenty to offer and teach me. I don't know where I lost the motivation to fly it, but I found it again. I think I got distracted with the Decathlon, so that's now a project for a rainy day or week or whatever; time to get serious with practicing for Jackson!!!

"Squirrilyness" huh? I suppose that's one way of putting it.

Nah, this hobby can just make you feel like you're being pulled every which direction some time. It happens.

Definitely look into going as big as you can handle. I can't vouch for the quality of CMPro (or lack thereof) since I've never purchased an airplane from them.

With my 2x2 I fold down the rear seats which opens the cab up to the trunk. I then fold down the front passengers seat and remove the headrest. I lay down a blanket. With my front driver's side door open and the rear passangers door open I can slide the airplane tail first through the rear door until it sticks out the front door on the opposite corner of the car. I then maneuver the nose into the trunk and let the tail back into the car. I set the fuselage on the side and slide it over so that the rear of the fuselage rests on the folded down front passengers seat. The tail feathers are almost touching the dashboard and the nose is up to the trunk door. It fits, but I have to remove the landing gear!

I guess I was lacking some creativity, to say the least. Putting both back seats down, I've got 66" to between the front seats, so figured with the plane in straight I had this distance from the spinner to the backside of the stab. I could put the plane in nose first, fold the passenger seat forward, and try to gain some room that way. Its not like anyone ever comes flying with me anyway! Nor do I really want someone distracting me from my flying.

Talking with a guy today we were discussing using the gear and engine I have in a small pattern plane, and he kept saying that a big plane will fly so much nicer. It was pretty exciting to hear him talk about how I 'needed' something like a pattern plane, or even his high-end katana. Anyway point is I want the biggest plane I can fit. I'll keep doing my research.

Be careful about picking up stuff, just because it is bigger. If you are going with a bigger pattern plane, you will probably need to upgrade your servos and such. Standard sport servos will not work in a 1.20 size pattern plane. You will notice their lack of resolution then. I would leave your .40 size stuff alone and just start saving for a bigger pattern plane. If you want to fly pattern, a katana is not a great plane for that. Typical scale aerobatic plane in that size range. They are still short coupled and do not fly near as well as a true pattern plane.

Arch

yeah I didn't mean I wanted a Katana, just that he thought I was ready for something more advanced than a Dolphin (though I still have plenty I can learn from the Dolphin).

I was thinking I could use some of my servos with a 6V battary pack? (57oz-in torque, .19s)

Start looking at Mini Vans. A Dodge Grand Caravan will haul several 2-meter planes, passengers and luggage all day long and still get 22 - 26Mpg. Trust me.

Seriously, if I were you I would look for a good 90-120 size Pattern plane. The Northeast Aero Aquila is really nice. Go to the Jackson contest (Oasis) and fly Ed's Aquila. Stop worrying. The season is almost over. Fly what you've got for now and get ready to gear up for next year this Winter. That's the nice part about living in the Northeast. We have time to re-group. LOL

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic

I almost forgot - by the end of the season some guys are looking to sell off their planes so they have room for the new ones they're going to build over the Winter. I'm sure Joe Lachowski will have something for sale at Oasis. In fact I'm pretty sure he has a turn-key Astral for sale right now. This is a good way to get into a competition ready 2-meter bird. Just add your receiver and fly. All of the hard work is already done and you can be sure we'll help you get it flying and trimmed out in no time.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic

That is good advice, especially since you don't have many guys locally to help you with setup. Purchasing an already setup pattern plane from an experienced pilot will let you avoid many headaches. Like I mentioned before, 1.20 and up is going to require better than standard servos - even just for the sake of safety. The larger flight loads in a 1.20+ sized model will require more torque and precision. Insufficient torque can cause blowback, flutter, and the loss of a model.

Don't forget guys, gaRCfield is a college student. I'm sure he's not going to purchase a new car just to haul a larger airplane.

And let us hope he uses his student loan money for school and not airplanes.....