papaone

Hi

A friend of mine Jean Michel installed a spark ignition (Becker) on his Yamada 170 DZ.
For these testings he used the same fuel as he usually used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ABAf...post42555.html
Set up are : fuel throtlle 8200 rpm, min about 1500 rpm with propeller APC 18.1x11 and Power Master 30 % nitro
Needle open at 3/4.
Claude

mjfrederick

What kind of fuel economy is he getting with this system?

papaone

Hi Frédérick

Now he is testing on fied. Next wesnesday he go on testing by flying with his Twister equiped with spark ignition. He 'll tell us how fuel he used.

Claude

XIGRIS

Hello, my first test are very intersting

1° 1600 RPM in low
2° 8000 RPM up (18.1 * 11 APC) (Power Master LVDZ 30%)
3° around 30% of less powermaster (3P09 with tank of 580 ML)
Engine is quite, and very intereting in fly moore easy and slowly in vertical
I Will try 19*11 but i don't now where to buy such propeller

Jean Michel

billtulsa

Jean Michel,

The APC 19-11 should be availble from your APC distributor you deal with, if not, APC may be able to ship you some direct. Check there website.

Bill

FlypatGWF

May I ask who made the inigtion system used in this case.

Thanks, Greg Frohreich

XIGRIS

BECKER (germany)

E17 ELECTRONIQUE (french dealer) very serious and aswering your questions
25 Rue du 8 Mai 1945
17138 PUILBOREAU
Tel : 05 46 67 64 06

prix du matériel :

Module BECKER ZA 11 V ( Monocylindre, allumage électronique variable, soquet pour bougie 1/4-32 )
Prix TTC : 179 Euros

Il existe des modules pour bicylindres, les soquets Ã* bougies sont Ã* déterminer Ã* la commande ( 1/4-32 pour bougies Ã* filetage Glow, M10 pour bougies moyennes type NGK CM6, M14 pour les grosses bougies )

Micro-bougie Ã* étincelles 1/4-32 culot long RIMFIRE VR2 L : 29,50 Euros TTC Pièce
Micro-bougie Ã* étincelles 1/4-32 culot court BECKER : 29,50 Euros TTC Pièce

+ frais de port

XIGRIS

BECKER (germany)

E17 ELECTRONIQUE (french dealer) very serious and aswering your questions
25 Rue du 8 Mai 1945
17138 PUILBOREAU
Tel : 05 46 67 64 06

prix du matériel :

Module BECKER ZA 11 V ( Monocylindre, allumage électronique variable, soquet pour bougie 1/4-32 )
Prix TTC : 179 Euros

Il existe des modules pour bicylindres, les soquets Ã* bougies sont Ã* déterminer Ã* la commande ( 1/4-32 pour bougies Ã* filetage Glow, M10 pour bougies moyennes type NGK CM6, M14 pour les grosses bougies )

Micro-bougie Ã* étincelles 1/4-32 culot long RIMFIRE VR2 L : 29,50 Euros TTC Pièce
Micro-bougie Ã* étincelles 1/4-32 culot court BECKER : 29,50 Euros TTC Pièce

+ frais de port

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

Very interesting and it works with a nose ring
Is there any english info on this? The ignition looks really expensive - does it include the mount, nose ring? Maybe it is very light weight?

I wonder if the CH sensor could be mounted in a similar way to work with a nose ring. Hmmmm. I know the CDI is coming and will be a cleaner install... but CH is VERY reliable. I am chomping at the bit to convert my 170!

Rune

what about this????
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...or_FTL_Engines
and this
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...on_XYZ_Engines
you will also need a spark plug and a magnet.
maybe to cheap.....

XIGRIS

it's look like becker system
Now my 170DZ work with 19*11 and it's marvellous

kobago

Hi Xigris
I am very interested about the way of installing this sensor.
The soft mount is a little twisted by the engine torque.
This twist might control ignition timing automatically.
But, a CDI system itself is supposed to control ignition timing automatically, too.
Xigris. How did you decide this ignition timing?
kobago[X(]

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

Kobago - it loks like he has mounted the sensor to the engine. So even if the engine moves (soft mount twists) the timing will not change. Quite clever - I just wonder how the sensor is secured tot he engine? It looks like maybe it is screwed in place so maybe a hole was tapped in the case?

XIGRIS

pistion up, magnet up
You strat engin and you fly

kobago

Thank you
I was mistaken because I didn't see a photograph carefully.
I will remodel my engine in this method.
Thank you for the wonderful idea.
kobago

grotto2

My Feedback: (2)

How much additional weight?

rmh

This approach to adding ignition to a glow engine is very straightforward and has been done many times over the recent years
the units are available from about 40 bucks and up depending on who you speak with
The weight if the unit is aprox 4 ounces
the battery to do an excellent job weighs 2 ounces (VPX cells ) A mix of alky/20%syn and a splash of nitro is the best (easy to setup) for openers.
A local frined has made units and done this type thing for many years
I used the two stroke ignitionand alky as a competition setup -10 years ago.
all in all a good idea . for get abou doing it as a gasoline setup th weight savings on fuel is good but the increased costs of redoing the engine are not worth the effort unles you are doing it as a sport plane and performance is not the objective.

grotto2

My Feedback: (2)

It might be worth 6 oz. for the reliability alone.

I presume one could run a lower oil mix.

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

If you are running 2.4ghz I have heard you can also run the igniton from and empty Rx port to save the 2oz. I know of several people doing it. I am not brave enough myself and I like to keep the systems completely seperate (battery and FO kill switch.)

I know the YS system is supposed to work with less oil. I can't quite get my head around why that is. I am seriously thinking of putting a CH ignition on mine and mounting the sensor to the motor similar to the above install so I can still use my nose ring. I would probably go with the same fuel I am running initially (Morgan 30% Heli LS.) The flip starts, no kick-back, reliability and fuel savings (big fuel savings) are very attractive.

rmh

I would not do it any other way but the nitro content can go down a lot with little or no performance loss
the ignition will stabilize against detonation and pre ignition -providing you keep the engine cool .
meaning -forget trying to wean th e engine as a path to "fuel economy"
Air cooled engines are really "fuel cooled " engines
ask any one who was a VW performance buff .
Lean em out and you kill em
same goes for the "less oil means more power bunch-" dumb idea.

XIGRIS

weight up with spark ignition
But
1° It's not necessaeray to have 580 ml fuel
2° You can put an lipo 2S (450 mA)
3° With 580 ml you can fly 3 PO9 (it's too long...)
4° Put an 400 ml tank
5° COnsommation of fuel is off than 30 %

Weight go dowm

David Bathe

Lower oil mix?
Some of the Euro guys running the YS converted 1.70's are using 6% oil and 20%nitro[X(]
They're reporting no problem.
Fuel mix like that is costing less than 15/15% sports mix.
Super cheap fuel and 17mins run time.

lip starts, super reliable....Big smiles

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

David - I know they are - I just don't know why? I can see a small reduction in oil becuse we were using extra oil to compensate for the timing, stress etc of not having an ignition. But 20% is the norm... 6% is wow - very little. If that is an okay thing then it sure does reduce the fuel cost a ton since the synthetic oil is very expensive.

I guess its time to try this for myself

jrpav1

My Feedback: (17)

Guys,
I could be wrong about this but I remember hearing that the YS engines that are running the CD ignitions at this point are still considerd "experimental". The CD ignition is not the only mod - there are also some updated internal parts that allow them to use less oil. These can be installed on the glow versions too. So it's not JUST the fact that they're running the CD ignition that allows them to run less oil although I'm sure that's having some effect. Before you try anything on your own engines (less oil mix), make sure you get the straight story from one of the team / factory guys.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

crhammond

My Feedback: (21)

Lets hope the YS conversion comes out soon. If it is not available by spring I will do my own conversion using a CH ignition and use the same fuel I currently use.