I finally got around to putting my Sword 140 together and all it needs is a power plant. I am going with a gasser and would like to know if one of those Chinese 26cc engines from Hobby City would be enough to pull it through the air? This is going to be a recreational pattern plane but I would still like it to perform as if it was going to be in competition. I also want to put a smoke system on it.

The 26 would fly it, but you would be WAY down on power from a competitive 2 meter pattern setup. The ZDZ 40 is much more in line with the powerplants that are currently run.

Arch

In that case, go ahead and put an OS 160 in it and call it a day. You're not going to get the performance you're looking for with a cheap gas engine. The weight penalty is ridiculous. An OS 160 on 5% should do what you're looking for and still perform well.

Even the lower end Evolution gassers don't crank the horses necessary. I mean it'll fly, but you won't be able to do a lot of extended vertical stuff. IMHO it will just be more trouble than it's worth.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying you probably won't get what you're after with a heavy cheap gasser on that particular airframe.

-Mike

LOL Arch you read my mind....but I don't think he wants to spend the ZDZ kind of $$$ for that F3A motor.

-Mike

PS Just re-read this and I didn't really like the way it sounded. The only way to get the performance with a gas engine is with the ZDZ40F3A, as the regular 40 is a little heavy. These planes are notoriously on the porky side and I think with a regular ZDZ40 and a smoke system....it would be flying brick (barely). The cheap Chinese motors would work ok but they are WAY heavier in relation to thier power output. And the ZDZ40F3A costs about as much as 2-3 of those planes, and that's with no exhaust....

Gotta agree with Mike on this one. My dad has a Fuji 34 and it is a great running motor, but power wise it doesnt even though the OS 1.60. carrying a smoke system is really going to add some weight as well....

Arch

Thanks. I had an OS 1.60 on an ultimate and HATED it. I could never get a full flight without a deadstick. I tried every trick in the book with no result. I want to go gas with this one. I suspected the 26cc would be a little small. This plane was given to me, so I 'm not going to spend a fortune on an engine. I may go with a 45cc engine, but will need to change the main gear so the prop will clear. This will be a Sunday recreation plane, that is why I want a cheap engine. This one might do. [link]http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5460&Product_Name=45cc_G as_engine_w/_CD-Ignition_3kw_+[/link]

The reason I posted in this forum was because the plane is a "pattern" style. I'm not going to kid myself and call it a true pattern ship. I have seen the difference between the real thing and these China knockoffs. Looks like you guys fly the good stuff, that is why I wanted an experts opinion before I wasted money on an underpowered engine. If that 45cc is too heavy I can just nix the smoke. I just think smoke is cool.

I've never heard of anyone having problems with the OS 1.60. they are usually fuel flip and fly...what brand fuel were you running? Usually 15% Nitro and an OS Type F plug and they will run forever. Probably the most user friendly 2 stroke I've ever seen. There are a lot of guys running them in competitive setups. I think you will run into vibration problems with the gasser. This plane is a typical ARF and if you get the weight up, and have vibration, it wont last long...it'll shake itself apart...

Arch

Yeah, we do fly these, that's why we're telling you....you're in for an unpleasant experience. It's been tried and tried again. if there was a viable solution, why would we be spending this much money on 30% nitro? because in that size plane, there isn't a "real" gas engine yet, and only the ZDZ40F3A is even close. And it's not cheap. it sucks, but it's the way it is right now.

Ok, to heck with the OS. try a Moki 180? Saito? Anything? Or do you just REALLY want to hear someone say that engine will be fine? Well, maybe but fine for what? Like I said, it'll fly, but it is going to be HEAVY. Probably close to 13 lbs if you're lucky. I'd look at a large glow motor. Some of them aren't that expensive.

But you're not really looking for a competition plane, and "enough power" and "too heavy" are relative terms. So, who knows....maybe it'll actually climb at full throttle, after the engine breaks in. Maybe it'll not shake the wings right off. Maybe it'll balance if you put all servos plus your battery and radio under the stab. Maybe it'll land and not rip the gear out because the stalll speed is 50mph. (but my guess is first day). And being a cheap chinese motor, maybe it will actually get through a full flight without dead sticking.....who knows. Maybe. But I'd bet money on this one....

You're not the first one to run into this, unfortunately. Like I said, it's been tried. Sometimes successfully, but on MUCH lighter planes that were purpose built from the start. if you put that engine on that plane, I'm guessing you're about 99% not going to be happy in the end. There are plenty of other options but none of the good ones are gas engines. Hopefully one day soon, but we (us pattern types) have been waiting on that for years now. So far they've gotten close...but they haven't really nailed it yet.

Your only real option in gas is to get a very LIGHT gas engine like the Evolution 26 and just live with the lack of performance. Or pony up for a ZDZ40F3A version motor. Other than that, you're looking at glow. Or a very frustrating experience. But if you DO decide to try that engine on that plane, please report back as to how it goes. Who knows it might be exactly what you were looking for after all, but I have tried a lot of stuff and I have a pretty good idea what you're about to run into. We're trying to give you GOOD advice, and I get the feeling it's not what you want to hear. I'm sorry about that, but....it is what it is.

Good luck though [8D]

-Mike

Archie is on the money about vibration. No matter the single cyl gassie you choose, it will shake. A soft mount is going to be needed such that some life expectancy for the model may be achieved.

I have the ZDZ40 RE.... it is destined for a pattern plane but I designed and built a soft mount for it (outlined in a thread here on RCU). The 45cc will not have the power numbers the ZDZ has particularly when the ZDZ is run on pipe.

I also agree with Archie and Mikey on the OS160 recommendation. These are really easy engines to run and tune.... I am surprised that you had trouble. Many of us have experience with the 160 so we could definitely help you through the issues. At 275$ it's hard to go wrong with that powerplant

MattK

I have owned and flown this plane. it flies fantastic... you will be happy.

Ideal motor is the OS 160, I flew it with a Mintor and you have never experienced dead sticks until you have flown a mintor.

Chuck

You have answered my question. And the answer is to give this plane back to my dad and let him put a motor on it. I will stick with .40 size planes and helicopters. Going back to glow fuel for a big plane in not an option for me. The nearest hobby shop with fuel is 90 miles away. As for the OS 160 ,I tried power master and byrons 5% and 15%, numerous glow plugs, on board glow system, closing off one of the pitts stacks and anything else the "expurts" suggested. It would always lean out in the air and die. I think I just had a dud. Anyway I sold the Ultimate and the engine went with it. Of course I let the new owner know of the problem before he bought it.

U should contact merle hyde and see if he can build u a soft mount, a friend just had one made for his zdz40f3a.

It appears you are interested in the plane and not so much pattern.

Look into the new evolution 40 as a power plant.

Good luck, the plane is worth flying!

Chuck

We weren't trying to discourage you, just point out you needed to look in another direction for power. I could tell early you didn't really want to spend a lot of cash on this thing. But that big gasser would spell disaster and misery on a massive scale.

You know if you look on that same site there is another option, but it's not exactly cheap either.....electric. But then you're opening a whole new can of worms if you're not already set up with chargers and support equipment. And no matter how you slice it, packs aren't cheap, although from that site you can get a pack set for about $200...if they don't puff on you

It does indeed sound like you had a serious problem with that 160....or a ghost in the fuel system. I have unfortunately heard of a few others that did exactly the same thing....and never did figure out why either. The ones I had were stupid easy to run. Set, fuel, backflip and fly all day long. But it can be really frustrating if you have a problem and can't find it. A YS can be the same way, I chased my tail all day long recently until I found a split in my fuel line that was so small, so insignificant, that I just found it by accident taking the plane apart. The engine would run fine until it stayed at full power for a second or 3, then it would lean out. I was thinking it was worn out (It only has I dunno, maybe 150 gallons through it LOL) and what it turned out to be was it wouldn't suck air unless it was really sucking hard...then there was a delay from there until the air bubbles hit the engine, then it would go nuts. While taking the plane apart I just happened to be standing there talking to someone while I was defueling and fiddling with the fuel filter, and felt what I thought was wetness where it shouldn't be....so I changed a 1" piece of fuel line, cranked the engine and it ran fine from then on. But I was about 2 seconds from chalking it up as worn out. And it's not even close....

Chuck is right though, if you can figure it out you will love that plane. Not much flies like a 2 meter pattern plane. Even the crappy ones fly pretty darned good. Don't give up yet, keep looking.

-Mike

You must have gotten a bad from stock 160 mine runs like a swiss watch

acam37,

Is this plane still available somewhere? [link=http://www.texasrcplanes.com/]Texas RC Planes[/link] used to stock it but they only have the 90 size now.

Zippy, This is the last 140 Tx RC Planes had. My dad owns the company and I'm not sure if he is going to order any more of these planes. I know of one guy from San Antonio who bought the 90 sword and won a contest with the stock version, so apparently these are good flying planes. Precision aerobatics is my favorite kind of flying and I am looking forward to seeing how this plane flies. I had a .40 size Global Avance and to this day it is still the best flying plane I've owned. There is a pic of it in my profile along with the Ultimate that had the bad OS 1.60 on it.

Thanks for the info. Might look into the 90 size.

Zippi, I know there is a fellow near Dallas Texas that might be looking to sell his. It is the plane I owned, broke the turtle deck on the nose, repaired it etc.

It has servos and a Mintor 170 in it but I would replace the motor unless me makes you a smoking deal.

PM me if you are interested.

Chuck

RC_Pattern_Flyer,

I'm not really looking for anything used. Nice looking Rascal. Is that one yours? I have one myself with a G26.

Zippi,

It is my dads Rascal in Montana. It has an OS 120 pumped. Not over powered and a BLAST to fly.

Chuck

I ran across an almost new Supertigre G2300 with stock muffler that a friend has. Is this engine a likely candidate for this plane, or do I need to go a little bigger?

the 2300 would fly that plane fine... not unlimited vertical.

That'll work! It's not brutal power but it's enough. That's a good choice there.

-Mike

That should do nicely....as Mike and Chuck said, not unlimited vertical, but I nice sport flying setup.

Arch