Heres a little background. Been flying for about 10 years, everything from SPAD's to helicopters. The pattern planes are by far my favorite. I did a search for a bi-plane pattern and only come up with a few models such as the Fliton 170 and the Double vision. My quesion is are any bipes used in actual contests or are they mainly used for Sunday flying? I will probably never fly in a contest, but strive to be the best pilot I can and love the way my Sword 140 flies, especially for the price.
The reason I ask this is my dad sells ARF's from the company who builds the Sword and the Ouya .40. We have a very good relationship with the owner and work closely with him about improvements to the planes and also new designs. If the market is there we could offer the Sword .90 and the 140 in a bipe version and try to get the weight down to the legal limit for the contest guys. As you know there aren't many good pattern planes in the average guy affordable range, but if there is a demand then maybe we can change all that.

Hello,
There are quite a few F3A-biplanes around these days, as the F3A-final programs (F-09 etc) gets more demanding (and bipes arejust cool.. ).
(Oxai: Adventure, Euphoria, Miss Wind (Sebart), Amethyst, ZN Suxess, CA Scandalous, Harada Meister (http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~aircraft/meister_2008.htm), Kanno Progress (http://www.mercury.sannet.ne.jp/kann...newmoderu.html), Kanno Bambino (http://www.mercury.sannet.ne.jp/kann...banbino90.html) , etc etc...)

In my mind, the biplanes has the "edge" only in the final rounds, where there are moreknife-edge manouvers (rolling loops etc..). I just have experience with the ZN Suxess, but I would guess some of the characteristics are similar on other bipes. I must admit I'm not "up there" among the finalists (way short actually..), so I'm just playing around with P-09. Tried out the Nordic-N-09 schedule with my Suxess last weekend with mixed luck.. Plenty of straight lines and gentle manouvers.

One "problem" is the waybiplanes track.. And of cource the wind issues! Compared to my Oxalys, the Suxess needs way more corrective rudder and aileron through looping manouvers. And it really drifts in strong winds! But the rolling is exeptional! Of course, knife edge-manouvers are plane laughs as well! Weight seems to be an issue with bipes, so be aware...
I have stil not flown the Suxess in an F3A-competition, but maybe this summer (just moved up to F3A last season).

As a little fun"fact", more 110-size F3A-bipes are now emerging... Take the Hirobo Adventure 110 or the Sebart Miss Wind 110.. Great fun! ("And it even fits under you bed....") </p>

my all time favorite plane to fly is the larger size Ultimates. I mainly have the average weekend flyer like myself in mind. I know the die hard pattern flyers go with the high end composite built planes that they use mostly for contest flying. But what about an affordable pattern ship that can be used in the sportsman class or as a practice plane. The Sword has already been changed up a bit, but I haven't seen it yet. I just thought a bipe version might be a good selling plane. I'm just tired of looking at cubs and mustangs at the flying field. anyway I'd like to see what yall think?

...

Thinn, post please pics(building process if possible) of your Suxess, or post link to your gallery or building site. I`m build one now, but not have building instructions and another information.

There are guys who would be interested in a bipe pattern plane at a reasonable price. I personally have an affinity for bipes, but there is no way I would ever pay the price for one of the top end bipes even if I had the money. If you can bring one to market, even a small trial batch, you would be better able to gauge interest.

just my $.02

You will have a hard time getting a full blown 2 meter bipe under weight.  There is a reason very few have offered one and the ones that do are very costly.  At this moment the Fliton bipe is over weight and they are working to correct this.  Oxai bipes are close to the limit and even the ones that Chip Hyde had are very close to the limit and you have to be very careful with equipment choices to get them under weight.  You have to use high quality balsa and exotic materials to get it under weight and this drives the cost up.

The first question is what do people consider reasonable...

Arch

Thats kind of what I thought, thats the reason I posted here, to get some good feed back. I'm still going to contact the CY Model owner and see if he would be willing to build a prototype based on the Sword (now called the Fortana).
As for reasonable cost, I would say in the $300.00 range for a 2 meter bipe covered in monokote and not the cheap chinacover.

Funny you should ask.

Check this month's issue of "K-Factor", the magazine of the NSRCA.
NSRCA President, Derek Koopowitz, flies a Fliton Element Bipe.

EJ

I think you would get some interest, especially at a price like that if it flew well. There really aren't any local contests that weigh planes, mainly the nats. Since QQ won the worlds with his biplane it seems more and more are popping up. The cheapest I know of was the Element Bipe which I think was around $800.00. I wouldn't mind seeing what you came up with.

Tim

Currently there are no Element Bipe's that meet the weight requirements.  If you follow the thread here on RCU about the Element Bipe it is over weight with a DZ in the nose.  They are working to reduce the weight, but nothing production has come even close to making weight.  I know Insight R/C has been working on the Harmony bipe, but the prototype was also overweight.  There is one that is getting close to being ready to fly that may be under weight, but hasnt been totally finished yet. 

In the lower classes a bipe is at a serious disadvantage as the patterns are not condusive to what a bipe does well (rolling loops, rolling circules,  and snapping maneuvers).  A bipe will get blown around more in the wind and is much more work for wind correction.  They do look neat though,

Arch

Hi,

Here are a few more pattern bipes.
http://www.oxai-australia.com.au/oxa...nge%202008.htm

Cheers,

Colin

Hi Guys,

Speaking of biplanes here`s the new Naruke Hobby ''Azure'' new toy for T.Onda to play with.

Only one word ''Immaculate'' comes to my mind simply amazing...!!!.

Specifically designed for the demanding Final and Unknown Patterns.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/naru/azura.htm

Regards.

Hi Guys,

This other biplane looks really really nice,flown bya father and son team from Germany flying it with E-power..!!.

It would be nice to hear somefeedback on the flying characteristics of the Chinese designed and produced by Flight-8 "Favorit" biplane.

It looks to be designed for E-power and retails for $2120.


http://www.flight-8.com/F3a-382.html...juqj4qi4sf1jt3

Regards.

I'm sorry.. I did not build the plane myself.. A fellow F3A-pilot (and Norwegian F3A-team veteran), Kjell Tore Pettersen is the master behind my plane. He built the wings himself, as he thought the original were too heavy... He is now flying the Oxai Adventure (among other planes..).
If I don't remember wrongly, the weight with the Ys170 and standars NiCd 5Cell pack was 5007g... I've now changed to an A123 1100mAh battery, so the weight shoud be ok.

</p>

Bottom wing of my plane is 340 gramms without cowering and servos. It`s heavy?</p>

There is still a need for a simple, low cost 2mtr Pattern aircraft.
In the past there was the Arresti, which had it's production problems, but was a simple(in it's fixed gear version) no fuss model that flew straight, and true.
You could fit it with a 140rx, 160fx, or a YS. It needs to be cheap to buy, plug in wings, and SIMPLE.

I will try to get some weights for you soon...
What about trying to get Piedmont to design a "double" Focus?? Could be a winner

You guys are only reinforcing my point.  He was asking about a reasonably priced competitive biplane.  The Oxai stuff is nice, the Naruke stuff is incredible, and even the Favorit is a nice place, but cost wise they are very expensive.  It is all but impossible to get one under weight without the cost skyrocketing,

Arch

If there is such a weight issue with bipes, then maybe there could be an amendment to the rules allowing another weight class for competition.
I did e-mail CY Model about the idea of offering a bipe pattern ship and waiting for their reply. Even if it can't get below legal weight, I think they would still be a good seller just for the fact that it would be a unique plane at the field, especially if it is offered in several engine sizes. Say one for a 110 to 120 and one for the large glow or 26cc gasser. Do local pattern contests actually weigh the planes, or is this only done at the larger events? Just curious.

The last thing I want to do is reinforce Arch's point. So let me say this, if you could bring a decent pattern type bipe to market for around $300 I think you would find buyers for it. The reality is that at local contests the planes don't get weighed so if it was a little over weight no big deal, but the purchaser couldn't take it to the NATS.

Like I said earlier, I have an affinity for bipes so a reasonable price on a pattern type bipe would probaly get me interested in having it just to play with....it would be the curiosity factor.

Please let me know if you need detail photos for your build...

Sorry for the slight off-topic post here.

Here are the weights of my Suxess (using my wifes' small kitchen weight):
-Bottom wing (all included): 577g
- Top wing (all included) : 637g
- Wing supports : 63g
- Belly pan :144g
- Fuse (all inclded) : 3560g
- Wing bolts (all 16 of them..) : 20g

All up weight : 5001g! (Gotta check that weight...)

Compared to my Oxalys, it's a heavy plane.. The total weight there is 4520g (Ys 160 w/Asano short pipe). (I'm usingan Ola Fremming modified wing of 964g. The original ZN Wing weighs 763g empty). Ola Fremming knows how to buildhis planeslight! - My Oxalys being bought from him last year and converted to YS Power..

It's only done at local events, but I doubt they are going to create a special weight class for heavier planes.  I think you would have a very large market for a 1.10 size pattern bipe.  Weight would no longer be an issue and its certainly a lot easier and cost effective to make one in the 1.10 size or 1.20 size instead of a full blown 2 meter plane.  Again, there is really no advantage in the lower classes for a bipe, and the upper class guys are going to spend whatever is needed to be competitive, so I think you would have a much greater marker in a little bit smaller size pattern bipe,

If you want to talk sometime, PM and we can talk.  I'm down near SA and have been flying pattern for several years and have a pretty good idea of what people are flying and I'd be glad to talk on the phone and discuss it some more,

Arch