I started with thumbs back in 1983, and always felt comfortable with that! I have tried the pinch method but like most people, I always go back to what I'm comfortable with!

Steve

[8D]

RC,

I hope you don't mind I do ask this question!

Gents, I read in the modern transmitter you can soften the sticks by settings as Expo, response and hysteresis. Maybe more.

My opinion is "thumbing the tile" is the most direct manipulating of the short sticks but you must have learned it.
Play (see the red circles on the picture) was the main technical disadvantage of my old transmitter sticks, resulting in hysteresis.

Shacking did wear the potentiometers so we were careful not to do that, .
We did want the fastest analog servo’s for the main control functions aileron and elevator.

My question is: does any thumber also uses the adjustments for :

Exponential
Response
Hysteresis.

Or are these adjustments mostly used by the pinchers because their stick manipulating is the weakest link in the chain of the control loop?

This is a real question, because why do use response adjustment when I look for the fastest servos , why use exponential when I use short sticks and why hysteresis when I do not shake and have perfect sticks now?

Also,

On the moment I want to safe my plane I do not want the speed of my servo restricted in the transmitter.

Also to think about the past, the first slow analog servos were for several pilots the reason to use their reeds radio for several years after the introduction of the proportional.

I am interested because I never did use any of them only dual rate some times.

Cees

In my humble opinion... The weakest link is always the (loose nut behind the sticks)the flyer, especially with todays radios.I know some of the best flyers in the world that use little to no expo both thumbers and pinchers. Arch Stafford,perennial top end finisher in masters uses very little to no expo and convinced my son early on not to use it. It can be somewhat of a crutch in my opinion but I need every cruth I can find. I've flown my son's planes with no expo and it only exagerrates every rookie mistake I make. Arch uses the approach if you need to smooth things out lessen you control surface throws. Maybe good for new dogs like my son but I'm and old dog. Different strokes for different strokes>>>>>
RC

Addendum...... If you learn to cover your mistakes you don't learn to fix them. I'm going to give no expo a try again to show my mistakes so can try to fix them. This is as always only my rookie opinion.
RC

I am interested if you will need expo the rest of your live when you don't learn to thumb, that's the background of my question.
It would be good to know before to try without!


Cees

I think it is safe to gleen from this thread that to thumb or pinch is just what you like and feel comfortable with. Expo is a good thing for most expanding neutrals ie. less accidental elevator with aileron input. What ever makes your flying smoother. I will try no expo again so as to let my mistakes show so I have to learn to fix them. Then I may go to a little to smooth out my flying. Again I don't want to cover my mistakes, I want to learn how not to make them.


RC

I fly pinch but have tried both. Pinch is more comfortable for me and I like that I rarely lose the stick and make that "doioing" sound that I hate. I was surprised that for the most part,I could fly just as well either way with a little practice,but thumbs still feels sloppier to me.
I don't see using expo as a crutch or a way to cover up poor technique unless perhaps it is being used on a trainer. It seems to me that we typically set up our planes these days with way more throw than they really need to achieve the ability to do radical maneuvers. Imagine if you set your car up so a quarter turn of the steering wheel would make the wheels go 90 degrees. Then you'd probably NEED expo just to be able to drive normal. I see expo as a way to have high and low rates available to you,without having to stop and flip a switch.



Edit:
Ooops....When I posted this,I didn't realize It was in the pattern forum. So some of my comments were made with sport and 3d flying in mind.

Well said. How many of us buy high torque servos and then use 25% of their available travel. Your high torque expensive servo just lost its power and resolution. Use all your servco travel and gain all the mechanical advantage you can.


RC

That's a good point. I had to think about it for a minute to understand what you meant,because I actually wasn't thinking along those lines. I was merely suggesting that due to the extremes we are pushing our models these days,I see expo as more of a necessity for a comfortable flying experience than a crutch. I don't know if flying without it would make you a better pilot,or if it would just make it look like your fingers aren't moving because you only have to breathe on the sticks for a response. I'm not speaking from a great deal of experience though. I use some expo to tone down the rudder on my sport plane for smoother ground handling. It gives me the same feel as dual rates did,but without having to remember to flip the switch.

Rick,

Keep in mind I fly very little or no expo, but use incredibly still springs. Expo has its place if you like soft springs, but with the stiff springs you don't get the accidental bumping of the stick or nerves making your flying jumpy.

Before everyone jumps all over me, I am not saying there is anything wrong with Expo. I just personally don't like the feel. When I was getting serious in pattern I had a lot of help from some guys who flew VERY stiff springs and very little expo. One of which was a multi time US world team member. I think a lot of it is how you learn. I set my planes up to fly the sequence as needed and if it is too sensitive, I will dial in a little expo to adjust the feel. I think if you have to move the stick 1/4" or more before anything happens, that is a major detriment in high wind conditions, but others don't. Just like pinch or thumb, they both work, and its a matter of feel. I think what hurts more is not learing to properly setup a plane early on. You then learn to fight conditions you shouldn't and then as you advance through the ranks these become bigger problems. I also think setting your plane up for the pattern you are flying is important. I don't think someone flying Sportsman can copy the settings of a top FAI flyer. The rates will be totally different. Set the plane up for your pattern and then as you advance learn to make adjustments accordingly. Don't assume the higher throws needed for FAI in some maneuvers are needed for Sportsman. All of this is a progression.

Arch

Dave Brown used to say that soft springs sell transmitters and stiff springs win contests.

I had some firsthand experience with Arch's statement about having your plane set up for your pattern. I just bought a plane a guy had set up for Masters and found there's much more rate there than I need for Sportsman...makes smooth a lot harder.

Scott

jeffsend, Ooops you did ask for it!!

Do not underestimate the human body

I do drive a recumbent clone like this "Flevo Racer", look also for "Flevo Bike"

See the example:
http://members.chello.nl/d.diederik/...lans/index.htm

It is a bycicle with “thrust direction control�.

Propulsion is with the legs with the frontwheel and steering is with the legs with the frontwheel (LOL).
So I have to use my legs “high torque� for propulsion and “low torque� for steering.

I can ride that bycicle with my eyes closed or reading a roadmap and for the same reason I do not need any expo for my tumbs to fly any plane, not even a little bit, it would disturb my control when I have to combine the inputs because with expo the ratio/gains are ganging.

Another profit is, I do not have to adjust and not to learn, my body does.

Learning drive that recumbent is a little bit more complicated as normal, but when known you can have attention for more important cases. (that map). The position of my legs do not have any relationshop with any "neutral" position in there movement. here are some rubber bands to neutralize the weight of the drive train, that's all. I normally can maintain a speed of about 6 - 25 km/h without using my hands also not in the city. To start I do not need my hands and the torque of my legs is much too high to use my hands, so they are only to activate the brakes.

Cycling is as thumbing only for that I do not need my eyes just as not for flying a real glider.
(Of course you have to observate not to hit anything and keep neutral)

Cees

I learned as a clumsy thumbs on the sticks, and a guy at the field suggested I try pinching it as he does. I had far more precision on handling the plane, but for me, I couldn't stunt as well or handle it in low rates like I can with thumbs. In the flight, I usually stick with thumbs out of habit, and if I have a maiden flight or get some flight issues like gusts, I revert to the pinch method to get that control. I've slipped more than once with thumbs and it's good to always have a forefinger on the stick to prevent a slip. I always think at home to adjust my stick heights for pinching, but when I get to the field, too many distractions going on, I forget to play with the adjustments. I have several radios, I find the JR sticks easier for me to use than the Futaba, in either style used.

Hee hee, that's funny, a broken strap. Maybe in Australian Rules full contact Pattern.

Actually using a strap is probably safer. Just this summer I saw a guy without a strap have his transmitter slip out of his hands! He uses a strap now.

Keith B

Hehehe, straps help on the slope too, just in case you decide to chuck the transmitter and hold onto the plane!