Benefits of swept wings?
10-13-2009 | 10:43 AM
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From: Fort Scott, KS,
Benefits of swept wings?
For those who are flying the newer designs with swept wings, what benefits are you realizing? What are the stalling and snapping characteristics compared to a double tapered wing? I'm working on a new design for E-power and am contemplating the use of a swept wing.
Thanks in advance for your input!!
Todd Schmidt
Thanks in advance for your input!!
Todd Schmidt
10-13-2009 | 11:01 AM
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From: Homestead,
FL
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
One of the advantages of the swept wing is that in a turn the outboard wing effectively becomes longer aerodynamically. This reduces the amount of adverse yaw during a turn minimizing the amount of rudder required if any in the turn. That is the reason why rudder is seldom used in full scale swept winged jets except for takeoffs and landings or aerobatic maneuvers.
I'm sure others here can expand
I'm sure others here can expand
10-13-2009 | 11:55 AM
#3
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
I guess if you see earlier we had swept back in the classic F3A models people were smarter those days... but u see now when CPLR came up with the Axiome.. a swept back wing u will see many designer will use it.. they are blind jerks... just copy.... the advantage is as far as i know the rolling characteristics & stall is improved...
People want to stick to the old style what others follow they don't want to experiment with new designs.. CPLR is the one dedicated F3A pilot who dose a lot of testing & R&D with his models & comes out with flying colors.....
People want to stick to the old style what others follow they don't want to experiment with new designs.. CPLR is the one dedicated F3A pilot who dose a lot of testing & R&D with his models & comes out with flying colors.....
10-13-2009 | 02:44 PM
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RE: Benefits of swept wings?
ORIGINAL: highfly3D
I guess if you see earlier we had swept back in the classic F3A models people were smarter those days... but u see now when CPLR came up with the Axiome.. a swept back wing u will see many designer will use it.. they are blind jerks... just copy.... the advantage is as far as i know the rolling characteristics & stall is improved...
People want to stick to the old style what others follow they don't want to experiment with new designs.. CPLR is the one dedicated F3A pilot who dose a lot of testing & R&D with his models & comes out with flying colors.....
I guess if you see earlier we had swept back in the classic F3A models people were smarter those days... but u see now when CPLR came up with the Axiome.. a swept back wing u will see many designer will use it.. they are blind jerks... just copy.... the advantage is as far as i know the rolling characteristics & stall is improved...
People want to stick to the old style what others follow they don't want to experiment with new designs.. CPLR is the one dedicated F3A pilot who dose a lot of testing & R&D with his models & comes out with flying colors.....
The swept wing in pattern is not a new concept. Guys used it 30 years ago. The planes will follow what is needed for the sequences they are flying. I personally have seen 3 Axiome's fly and was not impressed with any of them. I've watched the video's of CPLR and he flew his very well, but just because he flies something well, doesnt mean it works for everyone else.
Arch
10-13-2009 | 04:48 PM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
I guess when there is a design change, e.g. swept wings . . I imagine compromises are made.
It probably benefits the designer more than anyone else
I remember someone telling me that a WELL KNOWN European champion and designer of many great models once said, "my planes are designed to more easily fly the manoeuvres I am weaker at flying". I guess this means that if these same manoeuvres were your strength, and you were weaker at others . . you probably wouldn't like the plane?
Maybe a fairytale . . anyway, interesting comment.
Cheers, JB
It probably benefits the designer more than anyone else
I remember someone telling me that a WELL KNOWN European champion and designer of many great models once said, "my planes are designed to more easily fly the manoeuvres I am weaker at flying". I guess this means that if these same manoeuvres were your strength, and you were weaker at others . . you probably wouldn't like the plane?
Maybe a fairytale . . anyway, interesting comment.
Cheers, JB
10-13-2009 | 05:20 PM
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RE: Benefits of swept wings?
Well said Jeff. That is exactly why they design the planes the way they do. That is also why not every plane out there is good for every person. They each have strengths and weaknesses and the designs are a compromise to help the designer fly better.
Arch
Arch
10-13-2009 | 08:02 PM
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From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
One wonders whether the increasing amount of sweep has some effect on knife edge flight, giving the aircraft more effective dihedral. Maybe it means that you can get away with less dihedral in the wings, which i have to say I'm not sure is such a great thing.
It's been proven before that an aircraft with no dihedral doesn't knife edge as well as one with dihedral (just enough, not too much that it rolls out) due to the extra projected side area given by the wings.
Food for thought though.
I too find it a little hard to swallow that more sweep will aid rolling and stalling.
It does however shift the MAC aft which may be desirable.
It's been proven before that an aircraft with no dihedral doesn't knife edge as well as one with dihedral (just enough, not too much that it rolls out) due to the extra projected side area given by the wings.
Food for thought though.
I too find it a little hard to swallow that more sweep will aid rolling and stalling.
It does however shift the MAC aft which may be desirable.
10-13-2009 | 08:21 PM
#11
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RE: Benefits of swept wings?
I don't think so, I asked CPLR about that he said that he increased the dihedral in the Axiome prior to the WC's. I believe originally it was built with a flat top wing, and they cut it in half and added a couple mm.
I think the newer planes have the wing so low in the fuse that they need more dihedral than was common in the past when the wings were closer to the engine line.
I think the newer planes have the wing so low in the fuse that they need more dihedral than was common in the past when the wings were closer to the engine line.
ORIGINAL: Rendegade
One wonders whether the increasing amount of sweep has some effect on knife edge flight, giving the aircraft more effective dihedral. Maybe it means that you can get away with less dihedral in the wings, which i have to say I'm not sure is such a great thing.
It's been proven before that an aircraft with no dihedral doesn't knife edge as well as one with dihedral (just enough, not too much that it rolls out) due to the extra projected side area given by the wings.
Food for thought though.
I too find it a little hard to swallow that more sweep will aid rolling and stalling.
It does however shift the MAC aft which may be desirable.
One wonders whether the increasing amount of sweep has some effect on knife edge flight, giving the aircraft more effective dihedral. Maybe it means that you can get away with less dihedral in the wings, which i have to say I'm not sure is such a great thing.
It's been proven before that an aircraft with no dihedral doesn't knife edge as well as one with dihedral (just enough, not too much that it rolls out) due to the extra projected side area given by the wings.
Food for thought though.
I too find it a little hard to swallow that more sweep will aid rolling and stalling.
It does however shift the MAC aft which may be desirable.
10-13-2009 | 08:58 PM
#12
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
Didn't the Phoenix models have swept wings? It will be interesting if Mr. Don Lowe could help Todd. Very interesting discussion.
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
10-14-2009 | 03:25 AM
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From: Tampere, FINLAND
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
Looking at
http://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/stories/f3a/
there are so many (almost all ?!?) with swept wings...
- I wander if the Price is an issue, which is the right F3A to experiement with, because when
experimenting too much the crashes happen even to champions as well.
- Another issue is the Speed ? How the swept wings are related to the thicknes of the wing profile
and thus the speed. But that is also related to the wind, then one can ask the next question:
- Related question is the Wind, which is hard to predict, and then what the swept wing is better or worse
for more windy time; i.e would you prefer it or there isn't much difference or ...?
Regards,
Nick
http://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/stories/f3a/
there are so many (almost all ?!?) with swept wings...
- I wander if the Price is an issue, which is the right F3A to experiement with, because when
experimenting too much the crashes happen even to champions as well.
- Another issue is the Speed ? How the swept wings are related to the thicknes of the wing profile
and thus the speed. But that is also related to the wind, then one can ask the next question:
- Related question is the Wind, which is hard to predict, and then what the swept wing is better or worse
for more windy time; i.e would you prefer it or there isn't much difference or ...?
Regards,
Nick
10-14-2009 | 06:16 AM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
ORIGINAL: can773
Then we should be picking the design by the weakest pilot in order to cover all the bases!
Then we should be picking the design by the weakest pilot in order to cover all the bases!
)Cheers, JB
10-14-2009 | 08:28 AM
#16
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RE: Benefits of swept wings?
ORIGINAL: vbortone
Didn't the Phoenix models have swept wings? It will be interesting if Mr. Don Lowe could help Todd. Very interesting discussion.
Vicente ''Vince'' Bortone
Didn't the Phoenix models have swept wings? It will be interesting if Mr. Don Lowe could help Todd. Very interesting discussion.
Vicente ''Vince'' Bortone
Vince V.
10-14-2009 | 08:54 AM
#17
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RE: Benefits of swept wings?
ORIGINAL: Jeff Boyd 2
Nice one Chad . . SO . . how is the Xigris ??? . . (only kidding, mate )
Cheers, JB
ORIGINAL: can773
Then we should be picking the design by the weakest pilot in order to cover all the bases!
Then we should be picking the design by the weakest pilot in order to cover all the bases!
)Cheers, JB
I need all the help I can get! It delivered!
10-14-2009 | 11:45 AM
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RE: Benefits of swept wings?
This is true.
It's not that big of a secret, while I was studying for my pilot's license, my father had an old book that he used back in the mid 1980's that I studied from as well, and it discussed this.
It's not that big of a secret, while I was studying for my pilot's license, my father had an old book that he used back in the mid 1980's that I studied from as well, and it discussed this.
10-14-2009 | 12:46 PM
#19
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
Pardon me dropping in on this but.... I looked at the link in post #13, and except for the biplane, there isn't a single swept wing in the entire collection!???
I see almost all the wings with a tapered leading edge, and straight trailing edges, but none of them have the charateristic of being swept, as illustrated in the pixs in post #16, where the trailing edge of the tip is AFT of the trailing edge of the root of the wing.
So what do you guys think you're talking about?
I see almost all the wings with a tapered leading edge, and straight trailing edges, but none of them have the charateristic of being swept, as illustrated in the pixs in post #16, where the trailing edge of the tip is AFT of the trailing edge of the root of the wing.
So what do you guys think you're talking about?
10-14-2009 | 03:00 PM
#23
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
swept, tapered, what's the difference between the 2? Is my current build swept and tapered (even double tapered)? even the airfoil is tapered. i know the ailerons are tapered, they had to be hand sanded to fit the wing taper, not an easy task.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6819340/tm.htm
edit to comment that post #138 has a decent shot of the swept tapered wings.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6819340/tm.htm
edit to comment that post #138 has a decent shot of the swept tapered wings.
10-14-2009 | 06:44 PM
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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
RE: Benefits of swept wings?
ORIGINAL: JAS
Yes it is a lil Stephen.
Ryan, that was actually in Australia... similar though
Yes it is a lil Stephen.
Ryan, that was actually in Australia... similar though
Cheers, JB
