I've just finished reading the rules, defining the box, and one thing gets me about it.

Where does the 60° top of the box start from, i.e. it's convergent point on the the 60 left and right lines? Is it at the eye height of the pilot, or is it at his feet?

Considering the left and right lines are essentially vertical planes, one could surmise that the line could be anywhere really?

My point is, that if it is at your feet, you'll always have parralax issues determining a 60° top of the box. As it is it's hard enough determining where the box finishes, for the judges as they're not on line with the box, unless out on one edge, and then the opposite is out of whack.


So, where is the convergent point?

It should be figured to be 60 degrees from the judges eyes, because that is what they are going to judge.
Stuart

By that thinking the box should be at the judges feet not the pilots.

I don't think it really matters, since you are talking about a variance of less than about6 feet.

If flying at 150 meters out, I suspect most judges will not be able to determine the 60 degree top line within 20 feet. You're watching the plane and somewhat lose the point of reference to the ground to judge 60 degrees. Since the debate is less than 6 feet its a non issue.

For down grading going above the 60 degree line, I don't recall ever taking points away for it. I would assumethe manueverwould have to be really tall.Most likelywould be caused byflying ittoo close (toward the flight line)and would also cost additional points as its nearly impossible to stay in the 60 degree sides as well.

LLD

It is from the judges eyes (Ok, shoulders)- we learned about this in the judging class at the beginning of the season. The AMA book says for reference, the judge should extend his arm straight out (parallel with ground) then straight up (vertical), then split that into 3 parts (30,60,and 90 degrees). It is definitely not an exact reference, and I don't think it's really meant to be. You shouldn't be straining your neck looking up at the airplane, and you don't want to squeeze your sequence, vertically, too close to the ground.

Yeah, I was just trying to draw in in my head, and needed a frame of reference.

Right now, if I flop my head back, and look straight ahead, that's about 60°, but that's from my eye, not from the judges eye.

I am not sure the FAI-F3A rules actually define how the top of the box is determined (exactly), although it would make sense that the reference point for the 60 degree 'top of box' would be at the point where all defining lines for the 'box' meet.

i.e. It would be odd that there are lines defining 60 degrees to the left and right joining the center line at the pilots feet . . then measure the 60 degrees 'top of box' angle from somewhere else (e.g. the judges who are to be seated not more than 10m, and not less than 7m behind the competitor’s position (the apex of the 60 degree lines) and within an area described by the extension of the 60 degree lines to the rear of the competitor . . now there's another variation right there).

I reasonably agree with LLD . . the difference would be of little consequence in the subjective world of judging .

Best to make sure we fly reasonably within the 'box' or risk downgrades . .

Cheers, JB

Good point! If the judges were standing, the top of their box would be above the top of the pilot's box (by the distance between you and them, times the sine of 60*) - so with you saying the average distance is 8.5m, then that means the judges (standing) box 7.36 meters higher than the pilot's box. However, the judges are sitting, so remove a fraction of 1 meter from that - the judges box is still above the pilot's box. So, fly within a box that is 60* from your (the pilot's) eye sight and you will be safe [&:]

This is so much more fun than the stupid EE final I'm cramming for at 2:10am...[:'(]

STUDY!

[&o]

hehe, got into the habit of reminding the G/F when she procastinates, you'll thank me later, or maybe not.