So last weekend at my first contest of the year I consistently was scored 6's on my Top Hat and Immelman. It was very windy and I know I struggled with centering, but after reading the rules, looking over the NSRCA diagram, and trying to analyse my own maneuvers, I'm not certain I know what I should work on. I realize this is incredibly hard to discuss without being there in person to see what I am or am not doing, but would some of you be willing to chime in and talk about what the elements of an ideal Top Hat and Immelman are? How do you decide how high to go? Do you count in your head? Is it all visual for you? At what point do you roll? Should the Double Immelman be closer to a circle or an egg in shape?


Thanks as always,



Joe

Joe
The top hat as a center maneuver should be as wide as it is tall. I generally enter it and count pull 1 2 roll 1 2 pull 1 2 3 4 pull 1 2 roll 1 2 pull. You have to use throttle management to make it work.
On the double I it should be more egg shaped. Pull a half loop. The straight sections should be as long as the diameter of your loops. So if you pull a 30ft 1/2 loop your straight lengths will be 30ft.
DEG

Joe,

Your answers can be found here.



http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/cu...ediate2007.pdf

Joe is right on the mark. Study the presentation.....As with any presentation however, it is very difficult to put everything in. These generally do an excellent job with the major points.

I would add that the folks that are early in the pattern learning curve tend to not lock their wings, and tend to move the model in pitch a lot. Recommend that those manuevers in question are done as much as necessary concentrating on the fundamentals described in the presentation AND keeping wings locked AND maintaining smoothness...no pitch rocking, adjusting, etc. That goes for any maneuver BTW. Mastering Wing lock and pitch lock is the heart of Pattern

Those manuevers do have some opportunities for downgrades. Here are the typical gotcha's

Tophat
radius of each 1/4 loop need to be equal. I tend to make the radii at the top much smaller than the bottom because I am out of airspeed.
1/2 rolls need to be centered in the vertical lines (up and down).
as mentioned, manuever centered and symetry

Double I
radius of each 1/2 loop need to be equal
the roll needs to be immediately at the point where the 1/2 loop is complete. Any straight line after the half loop is completed but before the roll is obvious and a deduction
the top and bottom horizontal lines need to be the same length as the diameter of the half loops

Also,

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/e...aerobatics.pdf

While I don't fly competition pattern any more, When I was first starting to fly competitively (this was in the 60's) I would ask the judges that scored my flight what I did wrong and what I needed to improve on.

The Judges were Advanced pattern flyers or had been, they were a great help in me being able to advance my flying skills, both in competition and in every day flying.

When I wasn't flying competition and I was out at the local field flying, I was practicing the pattern, not just flying around. I would typically go through 125 gallons of fuel (12-0zs at a time flying a .60 sized pattern plane) during that years flying season.

You need to know the pattern class sequences that you are competiting in bckwards and forwards, both from the left and the right as you never know from which side of the field the wind will be blowing.

I wasn't the best pattern flyer in my class, but I was one of the most dedicated, now almost 50 yrs later I still go out to the field and fly the pattern. I still enjoy it now as much as I did then. Old habits die hard.

Jim

Thanks Matt,

I never put that into words or thoughts exactly, but the "wing lock" concept is great. Of course that assumes you can pull a corner and come out pointing the right way I read your comment and spent the next 10 packs of flying today trying to minimize my movements.


and of course,


Thanks to one and all for the insight! I can assure everyone that I have read and re-read the rules and diagrams over and over, but translating that into a good practice without someone at my side to yell at me is tough











Jim,

I couldn't agree more! I'm trying to do the same as you except I'm burning electrons 8 minutes at a time instead of burning fuel 12 ozs at a time. , but I love your comment about judges being helpful. When I go to a competition, the post flight critiques from the judges are my favorite part. Without question I have learned more in those few minutes than anywhere else in my brief Pattern career. Now I'll keep my fingers crossed that I can come back and add some posts after 50 years of flying!!


Thanks for the advice,


Joe

Joe,

I assume you are going to the contest this weekend. If yes, come over and introduce yourself. I'm the big guy.

I can call for you a round and we can talk after the flight

Joe, If you have access to other pattern flyers in your area, you need to 'go to school'. While lots of stick time is very important, I can't stress how important it is to find a coach early in your learning efforts. Without an observer/coach, you will begin to 'see' maneuvers in a way that may not be right. For example, wings level at various distances and altitudes relative to the pilot. Geometry, positioning and all that goes with a pattern flight are hard to observe and fly at the same time. A coach can guide you through the early stages of learning to fly pattern and help establish a good foundation. Straight, round and level are the basics. If you can't do those everywhere in the box, you will be 'learning' some bad habits. Then you practice those bad habits over and over until you run into someone that explains what is wrong. Then you have to break those habits and learn new ones.

Even if you have to drive some distance to fly with a coach, I would say it is well worth it in the early stages of learning pattern. Fortunately for me, I had 3 long time pattern pilots to help me when I first started. I thought I was doing pretty good until I was taken 'under their wings' so to speak. They not only helped me learn to fly pattern, they taught me how to set up a plane and why it was important. I practice alone quite a bit but seek input from experienced pattern flyers whenever possible. I still catch myself doing things wrong consistently because of the way I 'see' it. A critical coach is a huge benefit. A critical coach that can also fly pattern well is a blessing.

Woodie
Team ACME LG

Hey Woodie,

You switched sponsor again? What happened to our Team ACME? ...

Adrian

Still Team ACME

...what is "wing lock"?

Typo, corrected.... Sheesh!! ;-)

Woodie
Team ACME LG

I believe it means not rocking the wings back and forth looking for wings level or heading. I tell my students they need to 'hit the exit', basically as you leave the previous maneuver, the wings should be level, heading correct and constant altitude. No rocking the wings back and forth, etc.

Woodie

Team ACME LG

I believe "wing lock" means applying wing bolts to lock down those two piece wing to prevent them from jettison in mid flight.

Definitely an "ACME" moment from Roadrunner & Coyote ...

My judge told me that the double Immelman should be presented as two opposite capital letter 'C' and one square in between.

On wing lock, use rudder to silently correct the heading during level flight. Use of ailerons for the purpose will rock the wings, the opposite of wing locking.

YOU'RE A RIOT....RIOT.

KNOT!!

The FIRST thing that anyone can do to improve their game is go to an Optometrist and get your eyes checked and fixed. You can't fly pattern if you can't see. For years my old man used to tell me how he had to give up hustling pool table in his youth because he could no longer see the edges of the balls. After I turned 30 I realised what he was going on about because I couldn't see the edges of my Airplane and was slightly rocking the wings to find horizontal.

My eysight isn't bad, I'm -0.5 in the right eye and -0.25 in the left and while I can fly all day and never lose orientation without my contact lenses, I can't see the edges of my plane without them. Yes, my optometrist though I was a big whinger but it was the best couple of hundred I ever spent. If I never flew airplanes or road raced motorbikes I would never have picked up that my eyesight wasn't spot on, and it makes a huge difference.

Second point is trimming. Forget about flying pattern until your plane is trimmed properly or trimmed as close as you can get it. Your plane should be able to fly the full length of the field upright without touching anything, fly the full length of the field upside down with just a touch of down elevator, fly an upline without rolling, yawing left or right or pitching, and fly downlines the same. You should also be able to do 1/4, 1/2 and full rolls on uplines (and downlines) without it deviating from vertical.

Once you have your eyes right and your plane flying straight a top hat with half rolls becomes a very simple, power on, pull, pause, half roll,pause, pull, touch of down, power mid, longe pause, power off, pull, pause, half roll, pause, pull, power mid. Just imagine how much more fun it is if you have to make corrections after and during each step, your workload can double or triple.......

Hey BJR, try getting halfway through a round and your eyes start to water from Hayfever (our club uses the surrounds to grow hay to make some $$$) I had to be talked down to the ground, blind. It's amazing hard to see whether your wings are level when they've blurred so much you're not sure they're there anymore!



Oh and that's another thing I have to belt into people!!!! PAUSE!!! before you start to work on the next part of the manevure give a little pause. very important in the DI, like BJR says, "power on, pull, pause, half roll,pause" without the pause I'll amost garauntee you'll smear the last control input into the next.

Hi Matt,

How are you? Long time no see!

Adrian

Adrian,

You are right....been too long. Remember the time we flew together at the field by the Bay. Derek missed a good seesion.

Was out there last TG to spend the holiday with friends. Cooked and drank most of time, it was fantastic. I have a tremendous time every time I come out to the Bay area...my favorite place to come to. Hoping to retire there when it's time

Matt,

Keep me posted on your next trip out, we'll pound a few beers & BBQ.

Adrian

Hey Rendegade, how's things? I just put the last 3 flights on the 170cdi in the flying test bench (about 25 in total) and not a single deadstick. It liked the 16x14 and 17x13 but hated the 18.1X10W. I'll be pulling it out this week and fitting it into my Aries :-)

I had a contact lens "shift" after a blink while flying a heli and that was fun (must blink more often) flying a 400 sized heli with only one eye, with no depth perception. Try driving your car for a couple of minutes with one eye covered and see how annoying that is...

I might come across a bit blunt at times but work does that to me, I guess the point is trimming is WAY more important than flying (for me). You shouldn't have to be holding in control inputs when flying most of any schedule unless you have a solid crosswind but thats a different ballgame. Some people burn a phenominal amount of fuel learning each little "odd thing" their plane does in each maneuver. Get the trimming close and you'll only have to cope with the same "odd thing" it does in every maneuver. :-)

Rendegade is right about the pause, it gives you a 1-2 sec breather and lets the plane's attitude settle into it's new flightpath before you upset it again, unless the pause is a downgrade :-)