Should we fly the long or short masters pattern in 2011?

Before anyone votes on this, please go out and fly both sequences and compare time length, etc. to existing sequence.

I also believe Derek was going to establish an official poll on the NSRCA website?

Also, anyone voting on this should only be a Masters pilot or a pilot who will be flying Masters next year.

We already know what the guys who will be in the judges chair will pick

I have flown the 2011 long sequence and it is shorter in time then the current masters pattern. I do not think we should shorten the number of maneuvers in Masters. We only fly one pattern as opposed to the finals pattern in F3A, so we need the number of maneuvers to help determine the better flier. F3A went to a shorter pattern only to get 120 pilots flown at the WC. In AMA we have no need for this. Let's quit blindly following what F3A does and do what is right for the AMA classes!

One thing to think about is the total time Masters takes up at a contest. It's the largest class in the contest I go to and runs the longest sequence. Spending over half my time in the judges chair at a contest pegs my fun meter pretty quickly any more! Even if takeoffs and landings were't judged it would give judges a little more break between flyers.

Here is some more food for thought.

Why not have the long sequence as the official sequence for the Nats and have the short one available as an option at the CD's descretion at the local or regional contest level?

A significant number of maneuvers are in both sequences.

As Tony stated, the new long sequence is shorter in time than what we are flying now. I was involved in the design of both sequences and personally think the longer one is a better sequence.

As I said before, people need to go out and fly these sequences first.

I have flown them and they are both designed very well. Thank you to all the designers and their hard work.
I prefer the shorter sequence.
Contest management would certainly benefit and perhaps positively influence participation a bit as well.
Batteries would probably appreciate the shorter sequence.
I think we can still discern who the best pilot is with three less manuevers.
I would hope the short sequence was not designed simply to blindly follow F3A methods. Actually, F3A would benefit from input from a sequence design group such as this one...


-mark

Mark, it may be too late especially after what Earl described to me what is being used in the 2013 FAI sequences. . I can say one thing for sure. They are quite creative.

Joe are you referring to the triangular shaped rolling circle LOL

Tony and others, Similiar to the FAI guys, which I am not encouraging us to follow, for local contests flying the shorter sequence on saturday and long on sunday.

Same at the NATS... run prelims (6 rounds) with shorter, choose the finalists and fly the Long for finals?

Just my 2 cents.

Chuck Hochhalter

We have no time problem at the Nats. Preliminary rounds started at 1:00 and were done by 3:30. The Finals were called at the end of Round 3 because of "weather" at around 4:00 when we had perfect weather and doesn't get dark until 9. I do like the idea of the CD discretion, but please don't make the short the only pattern available to Masters pilots. Judging issues can be resolved by using Advanced fliers also to judge Masters.

I like that idea Chuck, perhaps the poll should add the option "Both."

Tony, don't forget turnout was on the low side this year. Usually there is closer to 40 plus or minus a few. There was only 33 this year.

Hi Joe,

Turnout has been on a steady decline for years. What do you think will cause an increase?

Actually for Masters it fluctuates. The economy has probably taken its toll the last two years. From Don Ramseys site and the AMA site:
These are actual participants not total registered which is higher.

1995 - 40
1996 - 36
1997 - 36
1998 - 32
1999 - 38
2000 - 44
2001 - 37
2002 - 50
2003 - 37
2004 - 39
2005 - 38
2006 - 40
2007 - 37
2008 - 45
2009 - 32
2010 - 33

I personally like the long sequence as it is shorter than what we are currently flying. I do however see the benefits at local contests where Masters is usually the largest class for having a shorter sequence.

Arch

Even at 45 vs the 33 this year, that would be three more fliers per line at the Nats. Another 30 minutes. So we would finish at 4:00 instead of 3:30.

Personally, with the amount of time we have to fly there, we could fly one line at each site and still finish with plenty of time. I judged one round of F3A preliminaries and we started at 8 and finished at 10:30. Masters could start at 11 instead of 1.

Or is the rumor that the AMA folds up shop at 5 true?

Sometimes we forget, we do need some built in flexibility for weather, since we do not have a rain date built into the schedule anymore.

I must say after the last few years of of being at the finals as an observer and judge, the finals day needs to be operated more efficiently. With judging team changeouts as they are, there is definitely no reason for a lunch break as it is. If there is one, it should be 45 minutes tops. The 2009 lunch break was rediculous on the Masters line. This years could have been shorter, as well.

Apparently not, I picked the long one. And I voted because although I plan to fly Advanced for one more year, the 2011 sequence is what will still be in effect when I move up.

Not only a shorter lunch break, but how about waiting for 3 more fliers before you have a 25-minute "Ice Cream Break"?

I'm not even sure why we have a lunch break. The judges are changing at lunch, so the morning ones can eat afterwards, and the afternoon ones can eat before sitting down. The pilots certainly have plenty of time to eat which sitting around for over an hour between flights...

The lunch break gives morning judges and callers time to go to their flying site and set up their equipment and maybe, grab a burger on the way. It could have been adjusted as conditions allowed, but I think having a set time avoids confusion. There was at least one day (Monday?) when FAI had a considerable delay because of fog. OTOH, the ice cream break was a bit much. I was there and didn't realize that's what it was. I thought the judges were just getting their normal break.

Verne

I'm not talking about the normal break during the prelims, I'm talking about the 1 hour + plus break during the finals when everyone is already on site ready to go, but knowing what weather was coming, we still sat for over an hour. During the prelims it doesn't really make any difference and I totally agree, but in the finals we lost a lot of time just waiting around for nothing.

Arch

I honestly dont think there was an issue in regards to NATS and time constraints.

I belive local in certain districts it would benefit all to leave it to CD or district to decide which to fly.

NATS decisions should not be based on time contraints.

my 2 cents.

Chuck Hochhalter

Had we not taking the hour lunch break, and kept flying when we knew weather was coming, but wasn't there yet, we could've come close, if not finished 4 rounds of Masters, but we lost well over 1 1/2 hours of flying between the lunch break and the weather break, BEFORE the weather got close.

Arch

FYI, just noticed the survey posted on the NSRCA website.