Crash Campbell

Hi All,

If anyone is considering entering their first pattern contest my advice based on my experience is "go for it". Everyone was very helpful and made me feel most welcome. One of the F3A pilots called for me and gave me invaluable advice, (thank Peter).
I was so nervous I could barely hold the TX in the first round and I was the first to fly. Sportsman was up first and I must have been the first to pay my entry fee. I won't make that mistake again!
I survived the first round and so did the judges but just barely! The Second and third rounds saw the nerves abate somewhat and I felt I was flying much better and smoother but I had a dead stick in each round so they didn't score. It turned out that the fuel tube in the tank had fallen apart as some idiot, me, had used the ARF tubing instead of the "real stuff"[:@]. Still I enjoyed myself and will be back.
In short I learned heaps that no amount of practice would give me.

Cheers,

Colin

Hauling-A

My Feedback: (7)

Congradulations Crash on finishing your first contest. Competition flying gets in your blood and it's hard to get it out. The most important thing to remember is to have fun. The more contests that you enter the easier it will become as you'll know what to expect.So I say WAY TO GO CRASH CAMPBELL and keep the fire burning.

J

Crash Campbell

Thanks Hauling-A,

I'll stick with some more pattern comps now the ice is broken and I know what to expect.

Cheers,

Colin

mithrandir

My Feedback: (2)

I am anticipating my first pattern contest in about 3 weeks...hmmmmm....

should be an interesting experiance....

I have flown hundreds of contests in other genre of RC (Sailplanes... F3B, slope racing etc)
but not pattern.... too bad my father can't see it... he is an old pattern guy... he can't fly anymore...
too bad

mithrandir

My Feedback: (2)

In my humble opinion... if the "Goal" is to fly contests... you will loose your motivation....

For me.. just flying and practicing the sequence is the satisfaction... a contest would just be a way to measure
my progress....

winning always feels great.... but seeing improvement irregardless of winning first or second to last
is the goal for me.......

cmoulder

IMHO this is true to a certain extent.

However, knowing that I am practicing for a contest makes me focus like nothing else, and ultimately makes me better. But it does take 3 or 4 contests to get used to the routine and let the nerves settle down a bit.

What has been amazing to me is how generous all of the top Masters and F3A pilots have been with their time and absolutely non-judgmental with their advice. I learn a lot just hearing how they trim their models and Tx set-up, and, of course, watching their fantastic flying!

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I hadn't flown a pattern contest in over 12 years until recently. I found the same as you and plan to return as soon as I have a pattern legal airplane. This time around I flew my 33% Laser in sportsman and managed a win. After 30+ IMAC contests the biggest challenge was staying in the box.

I have read several posts about the high cost of 2M pattern airplanes. While I am a fan of the current tech, I do still compete in IMAC and do some pylon racing so in my case I can't justify dropping 3K into just an airframe. My solution is to build up anothe Laser but at 2M. After some measuring, I found the 33% fuse to be just under 2Mwhile the height was very close to some of the widebody pattern designs. Here is what Ihave so far along with a pic of my IMAC laser.

flyintexan

My Feedback: (1)

Speed,

Well done! Excellent plan to go with the laser build. You might check to make sure you will still have 900+ sq.in. of wing once you shorten it to 78".

What does your gasser laser weigh?....looks very light!


-mark

degray

My Feedback: (15)

I'm also rather new to this, flown in Sportsman once last year. I plan on entering a contest in two weeks and can't seem to do consistant or good stall turns. Could some of you seasoned pilots give me a few pointers or a source I could go to on executing this manoeuver correctly? My vertical entry I feel is fine, but using the throttle and timing with kicking the rudder I think is one area I apparently need a lot of work in. Thanks, Don

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Don, I had a lot of trouble with this last year in Sportsman as well (still flying Sportsman). Two things compounded together in my case - not enough rudder throw, and not properly using the throttle 'blip'.

I was told by my mentor in Masters to keep a little throttle during the up line; bring the stick down to idle, then up two or three clicks for the duration of the up line and turn. It really helped. Also wait for the plane to just about stop climbing before you initiate your turn.

Since then I got a new radio and a new plane, and with a little expo, higher rates, and more rudder authority it's not a problem anymore.

I think it can differ by plane and pilot. I know lots of pilots like a good amount of rudder throw for the stall turns. Definitely take everything you gather here and try it all, find what works for you.

Hope this helps.

smcharg

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Don,
I sometimes struggle with this too. It's odd....I do fine and then I start flopping them. Here's what I've done to fix my issue. I found myself making my up line (I have rolls to do in mine) and as I approached the top of my stall turn, I noticed Iwas pulling the power ALL the way to idle to stop the plane (to make the rolls centered in the upline). When it "looked" like the plane was slow enough, I'd kick in the appropriate rudder and a little throttle to help it over. MANYtimes, I found out too late, I was already too slow and the darn plane would flop over. So, what I've done is start bringing back the throttle to slow down the plane on the upline but I'm not chopping the throttle anymore. Obviously, when you get down to 1/4 or so, the plane isn't going to generate enough thrust to keep climbing. Keeping a little throttle on the whole time and not bringing it back to idle, I'm kicking the rudder and since Ihaven't gone past the point of no return, the plane does its turn very nicely. It definitely takes practice and I by no means am an expert but I've been flying a long time. Another thing, if possible, always do the turn into the wind not with the wind. Again, that's if possible.
Last point to note on doing this manuever regardless of how you decide it works for you....Make sure that you don't "fly" through the stall. The rules say the turn must be executed within 1/2 of the wingspan of the aircraft. Like I say, the simplest manuevers can bite you. We tend to practice practice practice on the high K Factor maneuvers but a 10 or 9 can go a long way even on the K1 or 2 manuevers. That could easily be the difference between you and another pilot.

jrpav1

My Feedback: (17)

This is true but it's better to take a small hit for flying around the corner as opposed to completely flopping it (big 0).

It's like everything else, once you learn to set the plane up for the pivot it will almost do it on its own. If you're flying in a crosswind and you're crabbing on the way up, it's pretty easy to nail the pivot. The biggest problem is when the wind is pushing on the belly. You have a very good chance of flopping then because you should be pitched into the wind slightly to maintain a wind corrected upline. This is where you need to compromise between what you think you can get away with and what is obvious. A good judge will not deduct for drift as the model slows / approaches the pivot. In other words you have a little leeway towards the end of the upline. Sounds simple but there should be no obvious change in pitch or yaw throughout the upline. You need to practice this with someone watching to make sure what you're doing is correct.

One more thing: I sometimes see guys drawing really long uplines. This increases your exposure and makes it really obvious if you don't get something quite right. Only make them long enough to be well defined: establish your track and hold it for a while then execute the pivot. Anything more and you risk losing points. Remember, all maneuvers start as a "10". You have to show the judges something wrong in order to get a downgrade.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Mark, the gas version is 33% with a 96" span, powered with a DA50 and weighs 15 1/4 lbs. The pattern version is going to be powered with an OS 1.60 and pipe enclosed in the fuse.

smcharg

My Feedback: (1)

I want one

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

LOL which one? I currently have the 2M version under construction as well as 2 more 50cc versions and a beefed up version set up for a DA 85. Also made some progress on the hatch/canopy plug.

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

Canopy and fuse look great. The glass work looks great, are you doing your own glass? If you need OS 160 headers, let me know.

Ed

degray

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Joe for thaking the time to give me some pointers. Hope to get out tomorrow and practice. Don

degray

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Scott for your pointers and suggestions on the stall turn. I appreciate you help and I hope to get out tomorrow and give it a go. Don

smcharg

My Feedback: (1)

Speed, I'd actually be interested in the 2M one.  Todd Blose flew a SR200?  That was similar to the Laser in some respects back in the day and did quite well.  Forgive me if this is already a kit but it seems that you are designing and building it, yes?

Don, you're welcome sir. 

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Originally I did start with a Lanier kit. about the only thing that actually ended up in the airplane was the wing cores and the stick balsa. The ABSparts were used as molds to fab up a class cowl, wheel pants and tail fairing. All the left over kit parts were used as templates to create 4 sets of new/lighter parts. The gassers still use a 1.5" wing tube but a thinner walled version I got from TNT. For the 2M version I will be using a CF tube that actually was a stab tube from a 38% extra. Lots of work went into making the wings light. They are only sheeted on the root, leading/trailing edges and have been cored under the sheeting.

Equipment was kept to a minimum. If you look close at the pictures you will see that both elevator and rudder are pull-pull. Servo count is only 5 and that allows me to get away with only a 2200 mah li-ion pack.

I'm looking forward to seeing just what the 2M version will do. Still wondering what to do about the wing. I can simply cut a stock wing and then decide where to remove area to get the span right or a local friend of mine has a Passport that I can steal the airfoils/planform from.


Edward, yes I do my own glasswork. The hatch was pulled from the stock ABS part and the canopy was pulled from a C-ARF 3M Extra to create the plug. Yes, I will be needing a header but need to get drop measurments first. Will also have to study up and find what pipe works well with the 160 too

edwarda10pilot

My Feedback: (3)

speedracer

The headers I have available are 2 3/8" rise/drop and are made of 3/4" ID aluminum tube. If you do a search on this forum for "OS 160 Header", you will see my post regarding the performance of various props with the header. A number of us in pattern are using an ES composites carbon pipe. You could also try the Aeroslave carbon pipe. If you require additional info, please e-mail me at: [email protected].

Keep up the good work and best of luck in pattern

Ed

mithrandir

My Feedback: (2)

yo Speed....

if not too late.... use a thinner airfoil, and a higher taper ratio for the wing....

My Funtana has a planform not too different from a Laser/Extra (Cept the stupid root fairings) and in the little bit of gust
at the Miramar contest... I got tossed all over the sky..... IMHO, a full two meter span at a 5.5:1 Aspect ratio, with a thick airfoil is too floaty for pattern.... maybe some of you other pattern guys can confirm or deny that??

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

Servo travel settings are quite different between pattern style flying and others. To make the plane flying on a line, each control surface movement has to be minimized. Just a little bit of inputs each time. I set the elevator throw on my pattern plane to be around 12 degrees.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I'm not sure how control throws affect airfoil selection however the typical IMAC airplane and pattern airplane are set up in much the same way. The main difference I think would be aileron throw. In order to get through my IMAC sequences I have quite alot of aileron. This is done because of the vertical point rolls and snap rolls in just about every manuver of the higher level IMAC sequences. Except for the rolling circle elements all my IMAC airplanes are set up with about 10-12 degrees of elevator and 15-20 degrees of rudder with about 45 points of expo each. The only other flight mode I use is for rolling circles where I use about 30 degrees elevator and 40 rudder with less aileron. Expo stays the same.


As for the airfoil, I agree with Mith. I am pretty sure I will be going with a thinner section as the 15# gasser does seem a bit floaty. The taper may stay more or less the same as if one would look at a Laser 3 view you would see it is quite high aspect ratio compared to an Extra or Cap.

The way I figure it, the wheel has already been invented so Ishould just go steal an airfoil off a current well performing pattern airplane.

dave pattern

My Feedback: (3)

Hi Speed
try a naca 0012 or a nasa 64012
both are very popular with current pattern planes.
my shinden is 18.5" root with 8" tips and 35" panels (87" overall span.)
are you going to hollister?
i will be bringing my new to me shinden
hopefully i can give you a liittle more competition this time.
I'm the guy that got second to you last time,
Dave.