Generator
 

I run a small Honda 1000 watt generator and the noise just disappears. It's extremely quiet, light and reliable. I've owned mine for over 2 yrs charging 30 cell planes and now Lipos. It weighs 28lbs and is a lot more convenient than dealing with wet cell batteries. People are always shocked at how quiet the unit is. I've never had a complaint at an electric funfly and you certainly won't hear it at a glow field. Plus it's nice to have when the power goes out at home.

-- Kyle

RE: RE: RE: RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

Troy isnt Jerry Bud running a mixture servo plus the throttle servo, so he has one more servo than you, that might account for the difference in current draw at high RPM also.

RE: Generator
 

Kmashima,

The maximum current output of an Honda generator is about 8 amp. Could it handle the charging of large capacity LiPo batteries?

Thanks in advance?

LoTOM

RE: Generator
 

It's 1000 watts at 110v AC but I run 3 - 25 amp DC power supplies. I can charge 3 - 5s4p packs at 8 amps with no problems or 4 packs at slightly less amps. There's really no better option for easy, large battery pack charging. Particularly if you hang out at the field for 5 or 6 hours or need to attend an all day event.

-- Kyle

RE: Generator
 

In response to a question in another thread, I thought I'd give an update on my electric Partner.

I now have 126 flights on the model. It is flying great and I continue to be very pleased with the whole thing. I have had some learning curve issues and I'll go over them now.

Astro Flite makes a little device called a Whattmeter. You plug it in between the motor controller and a battery pack and it will tell you the volts, amps, watts and amp/hours you are consuming. It's a very useful device, but I never measured the Partner until just recently. This was a mistake as I will describe.

At around 50 flights I tried flying with an APC 24-12E prop. This is quite a bit larger prop then the 22-12E I had been flying with. I new it would pull more amps, but I never did install the Whattmeter and measure things. I did notice that the motor temps were getting higher, as I measured that with a little IR thermometer I got at Radio Shack. I had just assumed the higher temps were due mostly to the higher outside air temps we were having, since winter was ending. After about 6 or 7 flights with this bigger prop, during a flight the controller shut-off and I had to deadstick in. The controller has a protection circuit that will shut it off if the temps get too high. So I put the 22-12 prop back on and continued to fly.

My temps were still running a bit high, but they were still within what seemed to be OK numbers, but during flight 68, the controller fried itself. It burnt up completely, with smoke coming out of the model during the glide in. Hacker sent me another controller to install, but again I didn't measure the current consumption with the Whattmeter. The controller I was using was the Master 77, which is rated at 77 amps continuous. Remember that # for later.

Right after flight 107, when practicing on the Friday before the Riverside contest, the second controller burnt up. It happened on the ground right after I started the motor. This time Hacker express shipped me one of the new 90 amp controllers. I installed that in the model, it worked great, and I flew the contest. The power during all these problems was still great. Excellent performance at all times. But I did notice the higher temps of the motor and batteries.

So after the contest I decided to install the meter and measure the system. It was pulling 89 amps! No wonder I was blowing controllers. This set-up should have been pulling 65-67 amps at full power. I installed a new motor and the current draw went down to the expected 65 amps. Flying the model with the new motor showed much cooler temps on everything and still the excellent performance.

Turns out running that big 24-12 cause some high current draws with resulting high temps that partially demagnetized the motor. In this state, the motor will still put out good power, it will just pull a lot more current out of the batteries. This is what burnt up the two Master 77 controllers.

Lesson learned, use the Whattmeter from time to time to check the system performance. Use it when the system is new, and then use it whenever you make a change, like a different prop.

Controllers burning up is a bad thing. After the first time the controller went, all the servos in the model began to act up, then fail. Seems that when the controller went ballisitic, it sent a voltage spike through the throttle lead into the R/C system that damaged the amps in the servos. I had to replace all of them within 5 flights. So monitor that current draw and keep it at a safe level. And I would recommend the new 90 amp controller. It has a much better design and is now barely warm after a flight.

With this lesson learned, I am still very happy with this whole set-up. I now have the new Thunderpower 10c cells in the plane with a 10s3p pack and now the model is just under 11 pounds. It flies extremely well and I couldn't be happier. The no vibration, no oil, ease of operation has really made pattern flying a lot more fun for me. I will stay with electric.

Hope this helps!

RE: Generator
 

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the update on the electric Partner. I looked on the Hacker website and could not find the new 90 amp controller. What is the part number they sent you? Am I correct in saying if you run the 22x12 prop you will pull 65 amps and still be safe using the master 77 3p opto controller with no overheating problems. Have you now gone back to just running the 22x12 prop? Will running the 24x12 prop with the C50 14XL motor be ok as long as you are using the new 90 amp controller? With the new 10s3p pack, are they two TP5700-5S3P packs and are you using two chargers when recharging them between flights? Thank you for your time in answering my questions as I am trying to gather info on what is currently working for electric pattern.
Scott

RE: Generator
 

Not sure on the # for the 90 amp controller. I believe it is the 90 acro or something like that. A call to Hacker would straighten that out.

I believe if I had never put the 24-12 on the model I would have had no problems with the 77 controller. But the new 90 is a much better controller with some nice features, so I would recommend it.

Even with the new 90 amp controller I would not recommend using the 24-12. It is too easy to get the motor too hot and demagnetize it. That is where all my problems as noted started. So I'm stayong with the 22-12. Frankly, the performance is excellent with that prop.

The packs are exactly as you stated, and I am using two Orbit chargers.

Hope this helps!

RE: Generator
 

Tony have you experienced any battery failures? Im trying to make a decision whether to go this route about mid summer.

.
 

Hi Tony,
Can you tell me what wing/tail incidence you have set up on the Partner, I tried to get this info on the PL site but could not locate it.

Thanks
Niall

RE: Generator
 

Tony (or JAS),

Please comment on the consistency of the throttle response for your set-up (viz. discharge curve) throughout a flight. I have been doing some experiments with an electrified H9 Funtana (Hacker C50-10L, TP 7600 5s4p ~9C batteries, etc.) as a preliminary step toward deciding on a e-powered pattern model. I find a noticeable change in throttle response with this set-up over the course of an ~8 minute flight (comparable P-05 fly time with glow, anyway) that I would find undesirable in a pattern set-up. There is enough power throughout the flight, but you need more throttle stick to get the same vertical performance after ~20% of the capacity has been utilized. After that point the response is consistent over a larger range of the remaining capacity.

Regards,

Andre'

RE: Generator
 

Hi Guys,

Andre',

I truly have not found what you are describing. Not with my Partner or with my Funtana S40. I am using the new 10s3p 5700's in the Partner now, and they work the same as my older packs. In fact, I find the power to increase as the packs get warmer during the flight. I try to warm the packs up prior to a flight by leaving them on the dash of my van in the sun. If the packs are cold at the start of a flight the power will be a little down until they warm up.

One of the things that has amazed me about the electric power is how consistent it is during a flight.

byoung466,

I did have a cell go bad on a pack last weekend. It was one of the new 10c packs from TP. They told me to keep the loads and charge rates low for the first few cycles to break-in the packs, and I thought I was doing that, but the demagged motor condition I described earlier was really loading the packs too high. I have sent the pack into TP for repair.

Cell life is still yet to be really determined. I have maybe 60-70 cycles on a single pack, far less then what they should do. So it will be a while before I know if they will do the expected 400-600 cycles.

Niall,

Sorry, I have not measured the incidences. I initially put them on the marks that are on the fuse. But I have adjusted them some during trim flights. So I really don't know the exact measurements.

Hope this helps!

RE: Generator
 

Tony,

What kind of spinner and adapter are you using?
It seems that the adapter shaft comes with the Hacker motor is a bit short for using Tru-Turn double jam prop nuts.

Thanks in advance.

LoTOM

RE: Generator
 

LoTom,

I don't know if your's is different then mine, but I'm using a Tru-Turn spinner and adapter nut. The shaft is plenty long, in fact, it is almost too long.

Hacker did change the prop adapter with the "C" gearbox. Maybe that is the difference?

RE: Generator
 

Tony, did you ever consider gearing down the motor (not sure if this can be done with the Hacker) and using the bigger prop again? That way you would get back to where the system is not overloaded... while keeping the benefits of the bigger prop.

Thanks,

David

RE: Golf cart batteries
 

I had a flame out this past weekend at the Temple contest. My Eclipse will need some fuse repairs to the pipe floor and the landing gear blocks. I've reviewed Tony's pictures for the motor installation. It looks like I can convert to a Hacker C5014XL electric drive with minimal modifications. I can easily modify the landing gear block to lower it for a 22" prop. I have few questions.

1) what is your typical right and down thrust angles when using the APC 22" E props?

2) what is the best type of connecter to use for the batteries and speed controller?

3) what is the delivery times for the motor, speed controller and batteries?

I would like to convert the plane in time for the Nats.

Thanks - Steve

RE: Generator
 

Hi Steve,

Here are some answers. Hope this helps!

1. I would start with whatever the original thrustlines were. I built my Partner to the nose ring and have had to make no changes.

2. Deans Ultra Connector. I solder the motor directly to the speed controller and then have connectors between the ESC and batteries.

3. The motors and controllers can be very spotty. I have had a C50 14XL Acro and the 90 amp controller on order for over a month. Thunderpower batteries have been pretty good. I've never waited over two weeks for them. They are in the middle of some changes so availability may be a little slow.

I have 170 flights on the partner now and I still love it. Haven't worn out a servo pot yet!

RE: Generator
 

Tony

What battery packs are you using?

RE: Generator
 

Larmark,

Tony sez he is using the new 10S3P 5700's in his post dtd 5-5-04 above.

Sam

RE: Generator
 

Tony,

Looks like I am taking the electric plunge. I am converting a glow engine Eclipse 2M pattern plane to an electric with a Hacker C50 14XL motor and will be using two (in series) Thunderpower 5s3P 5700 LiPo batteries. What is the best field charger to use? Also I plan to power the charger with a 120v to 12v power supply. I would like to charge both packs at the same time. What is the best power supply for charging two batteries. This will help me get more practice flights in a flying session.

Thanks

Steve

RE: Generator
 

Steve, without actually using any of them or having any first hand knowledge, in my research I found that a pair of Astroflight 109s was the cheapest way to go. You can go with the more expensive chargers like the Orbit and Schulze, but you only gain easier firmware updating, more volts and/or amps that you won't need with those batteries, and computer interfacing. I'm also fairly certain Tony has already discussed his choices in chargers somewhere on RCu.

RE: Generator
 

The astroflights are prob the hottest charger, if you can find them in stock. 8 amps and up to 9 cells, charges lithiums only. Schulze's most economical charger is only 5 amps but will charge several differnent types of batteries, but is also harder to use, where the astro is more plug and play. Plus the astro's a lot less cost. You'll need 2 chargers, chargeing the packs seperately as 5 cell at 5.7amps. Cosel power supplies work well. You can only find them on ebay now for $24, 13 amp. Light Flight RC sells something similar for a couple dollars less. You have to add your own power cord, but for the money they're a good deal. Orbit, I don't know much about them.

Re read Tony's post #125. Of all the tips he's given us all, this is the best post he's made for someone new getting into electrics.

RE: Generator
 

Tony,

I have mounted the Hacker C50 14XL engine in my Eclipse. I have two cheek cowl air entry openings in line with the motor. I seem to remember you had overheated one of your engines. Would you recommend I install air deflector baffles to direct the air across the engine? By the way, I did block off the chin cowl air entry in an attempt to insure incomming air was inline with the motor from the cheek cowl openings. I have also ordered a temperature gun. What is the maximum temperature of the motor you would feel is appropiate? It is in the 90's here in Houston.

I have attached a picture of the plane before the chin cowl modifications.

This thread has helped me a lot. I hope to start another thread on my Eclipse electric conversion project. I am just waiting to get everything finished and get in a test flight.

Thanks,

Steve

RE: Generator
 

swk551, that eclipse loks very similar to my smaragd, what weight did your's come out at, I'm hoping mine will be under 10lbs, but definately under 11lbs. I'm using a 10s2p pack, so I'm hoping that will produce a light plane.

tonyf
I've mount the motor to the nose ring of my plane, hope it's strong enough, however have you put any form of soft between the motor and fuse. I've been thinking of putting some innertube im between just to dampen the noise from the gearbox.

RE: Generator
 

Sorry I have not received my TP6000 10s3p batteries yet. But if thier estimated weight is right, I hope to come in at 10#-14oz. I did mount my motor to a nose ring in the plane very similar to TonyF's arrangement. I use a rear motor support almost identical to TonyF's.

RE: Generator
 

Tony, how about the gearbox? Did you have to do any maintenance or replacements?

Thanks,

David

RE: Generator
 

what rpm you spinning the 22x12 at, or what ever prop size you are using

RE: Generator
 

Hi,

I'll try to answer all the questions.

Steve,

I overheated a motor running a 24-12 prop, which is too much load on the motor. However, I would be concerned about trying to cool the motor with just the cheek cowl inlets. I am now using a 3" spinner on the Partner which opens up a gap between the fuse and the spinner, letting air in around the spinner. I also use the chin cowl inlet with a baffle to direct the air up to the motor. I have had no motor temp problems with this arrangement even on 95 -100 degree days. Too much cooling is always better then too little. I would try to run the motor no more then 150-160 degrees.

foofydoo,

I think you might have real longevity problems with the batteries running a 2P pack. What is the total capacity of that pack? If it's 4000 mah you'll be depleting it to it's max nearly every flight, not good for the packs. Also, current draw may be too high. Just seems a little too much on the edge. Also, I looked at the pics of your motor installation. Using a firewall and a solid front nose ring will greatly reduce the cooling to the motor. You may have overtemp problems. Keep a close eye on that. You can look at the beginning of this thred and see my mounting arrangement. It is shock mounted.

David,

I think you should clean and regrease the gearbox after 50-75 flights. I had an idler gear bearing go bad in the original gearbox after about 150 flights without cleaning, so I think 50-75 would be a better number. Other then that, the gearbox has been great. It really is a very well built unit. Just keep track of the orientation of the idler gears and the little washers when you disassemble the box. It needs to go back together correctly.

Hope this helps!

RE: Generator
 

hi tonyf

haven't cut out any holes for the motor yet, will be the standard holes in the nose, and then the fire wall will have big hole so I can remove the motor, might even put a scopp on top above the motor.
the packs are 5000mah flightpoweer packs, they are 14c and peak at 20c, so they should be ok. they use them in the 3d helicopters, the big current eaters and they're fine in them.
how have you shock mounted it.

Charging Lipo's
 

Hello.
Do you recommend/need to cool down the batteries after flights, before they are put on the charger?
I have two large lipo packs, 10s2p Irate (4400 mAh total) and 10s3p TP (6000 mAh). After a flight, it takes at least 15 minutes for these packs to cool down to near ambient temperature. I have a cooling tube with a 12V fan that I used to use for charging NiCd batteries, should I start using this before charging?
(The batteries do not heat up at all during charging, so it would just be to get the temperature down as quickly as possible after flights, before charging.)
Magne

RE: Generator
 

Magne
since Lipos fly best when they are 120 degrees, I don't see why you need to have to cool them to ambient. I don't. I use 10s4p and 10s3p packs. Because they are the new ThunderPower 10c packs they go into the plane hot (sitting on the dash) but come out at around 110. I just put them right back on the charger.

-- Kyle

RE: Generator
 

is that OC or farenheit

RE: Generator
 

temps are in F. 120 C would melt the batteries and the occupant of the car:)

RE: Generator
 

Hello Tony,
can I have question about new TP 5700 -5s3p pack,
what continues discharge are able do this NEW TP batteries 10s3P (50-60amp?)

I would like to buy some but I need to know this information because I need for my engine about 60Ah on full throttle.
What amp do you have on full throttle?


Thanks



Ales

RE: Generator
 

The new packs are rated at 10C continuous. So the pack you mentioned should be able to do 57 amps continuous, of course higher in bursts. My set-up with the new cells has checked with a whattmeter at 56 amps.

Hope this helps!

RE: Generator
 

Tony, are you saying that you draw 56 A static with 14 XL and 22x12?

Did you try/consider 13 XL?

Thanks,

David

RE: Generator
 

I think he meant 65A. 13XL with this prop would prob be in the mid 70's I'm guessing.

RE: Generator
 

13xl spins faster, so you can use a smaller prop. The faster the motor spins, the more back emf, less current which means it's more efficient. Apparently Mr Hacker made the 13xl specifically for F3a.

RE: Generator
 

Tony: I finally resolve my problem with posting to this forum! I've been putting off a motor selection for my PL Partner because of some degree of uncertainty about the best alternative. I recall you recently replaced your C50 14XL with a 15XL and a 24 x 12 APCE prop. European flyers seem to have settled on the 13XL with a slightly smaller prop, and I've even seen reference to some pattern flyers utilizing a 12XL. I have a 12XL spinning a 20 x 13 APCE in a 10.6 lb IMAC style YAK and never have to go above 2/3 throttle even for extended vertical maneuvers. The Hacker motor/prop combinations being used for pattern seem to draw about the same current from a 10S LiPo pack....65 to 68 amps. I'd appreciate your thoughts regarding higher motor winds and larger props vs fewer winds and smaller props.

Mike Moritko
Papillion, NE

RE: Generator
 

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, but here goes.

A 14XL on a 22-12 prop with 0 advance timing and using TP Gen 2 Lite batteries measure a current draw at full power of 56-58 amps on my model. Set to the +3 degrees of timing I'm using now it pulls about 66-68 amps.

As to the 13XL, I've talked to Sean Plummer at Hacker USA and he has told me that they do not recommend that motor for pattern. It pulls too much current using the sort of props we want to fly. I have tried the 15XL, and while I was inititally impressed, I've done some more back to back testing and I still prefer the 14XL. It's the best combination of power and speed.

BTW, Sean has told me that the 15XL is actually the most efficient motor. It is true that if you let an electric motor run at higher RPM it will draw less current. But since all the C50 Acro's are using the same ratio gearbox, it is a matter of finding what wind motor will turn the best working prop the most efficiently. Right now that seems to be the 14XL.

RE: Generator
 

Tony,

do you use STOCK motor, or is it in any way modified. Also, how many flights have you made on one motor, and what maintenance (and after how many flights) if any. What defects you had (if any).
Need to know before making the big step...

So far I use prototype Czech outrunner (Kral) on my 4,4 kg Cayenne model, with 2s 2600 PolyQuest. With 20x11, the static draw is 55 A. The power is good, but not great - perfect for calm day, but a bit lacking when the wind picks up...

I suspect that going to 22x12 in itself might help... and geared motor in general is supposed to be slightly more efficient than an outrunner (dont ask me why). 14XL seems to be my choice for now.

David