Electrified Partner
 

Hi,

I thought I would post a few pics of the motor installation in my PL Partner. I'm using a Hacker C50 14XL and have basically just tried to duplicate the installation in the Rhapsody that Jason flew at the world's. This consisits of a front plate that the motor bolts to, and this front plate bolts to a front former through 4 rubber grommets. The rear support has a hole that is bushed with some split fuel tubing, and that support is bolted to an aft former. Overall not too difficult, and very light. For the front plate I used some .090 carbon plate. The front former is 1/8" carbon-end grain balsa-carbon laminate. The aft support os .080 carbon plate, and the aft former is 1/8" carbon-rohacell-carbon laminate. I must have worn out a dozen jig saw blades cutting out all that carbon!

The model is ready to paint and cover. Can't wait to get it into the air!

Thanks!

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Some more pics.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Last two. BTW, the formers were glued in using BVM Aeropoxy. Great stuff, stays in place when applied and is very strong once cured.

That big 22" prop makes this model look small, but the Partner is really a big model. If this works out as well as I think, next on the agenda is a PL Lazulite for electric.

Thanks!

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Nice job Tony.. We're taking over :D

I can see the slogan already..

"Just Say No to Glow"

RE: Electrified Partner
 

It's amazing how little that motor looks in the the plane and how much power it puts out! You will have some tremendous down line braking with that huge windmilling prop!

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Looks like you have the motor supported perfect! When will you fly her?
Is there a airscoop for cooling air?

Rob

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Thanks for the comments. I'm going to finish the covering and fly it before I paint the fuse, so maybe this weekend, at the latest the weekend after. If all goes well I'll then paint the fuse. No problem doing that, it won't get any oil on it!

I hadn't cut the cooling intakes yet when I took the pics. There are now side intake holes and a intake on the chin cowl. I'll put a balsa baffle in the chin cowl to direct air up to the motor/controller/batteries. Tonight I'm going to cut the exhaust holes in the back of the fuse.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

What charger and batteries are you using for this setup?

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Batteries are the Thunder Power 8000mah 10s4p Lithium-Polymers. I don't know which charger Tony is using but I'm using a pair of Schulze ISL 6-330d. My batteries are actually 2 x 5s4p's 8000mah connected in series.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Thanks Doug

Do you need the 8000 mah packs? I thought Jason was running only 6000 mah?

You wouldnt happen to have a weight of the motor/gearbox, controller, and batteries combined would you?

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Sorry.. typo on my part. I'm running the 10s3p 6000mah. Tony is using the 10s4p 8000mah.

No weight yet.. Soon as my batteries arrive.. I'll get it for you. That 13ga wire adds up too.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Thanks for answering Doug.

I will be using two 5s4p packs in series. I have talked extensively to Hacker and Thunderpower, and they said the 3p's may not hold up well to continous use. Too much current coming out of them. For long cycle life they recommend the 4p's. They only used the 3p's to get the Rhapsody comfortably under the weight limit. I have yet to weigh anything seriously yet, but I'm hoping the Partner will come out under 5kg using the 4p's. If not, I don't really care, I don't intend to go to the world's again! If I go to a Nats or such I'll get a couple of 3p packs just to use during the contest flights.

Right now I have an Orbit charger, but I'm looking at a pair of the Astro 109's. Cheaper and can put out more current, however it is strictly a lithium charger.

I plan on posting a complete weight schedule once it's determined.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

I have both the astro's and orbit's.. although thunder power likes the orbit better, I like the speed of the astro. you just have to watch it at the beginning thorugh the first cyle to make sure it does not change the cell count. Thunder Power has noted several times that this has happened.

the 10S4P packs weigh about 3.15 pounds depending on the configuration. the motors w/ gears are around 1.3 pounds .

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Are you sure you should fly before painting? I mean your plane will be coated in goo....oh right nevermind...:D

RE: Electrified Partner
 

I thinking that the weight rules for E planes should be different than IC planes in that your always weighing the E plane with it's fuel load versus the dry weight on IC. I just think it makes things more fair. E. planes are here to stay. Thanks for your efforts as an early developer I'm sure that it's all a learning curve and in the future it will only get better.
Tony if things go better than even you expect I hope you change your mind and give it a full blown go again. Your talent is rare and your an impact flyer. Mike

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Yeah you should weight it after you discharge the battery......anybody knows how much an electron weights? :)

RE: Electrified Partner
 

I think the electric should have the advantage or handicap of at least the weight of the fuel in common 1.40 size IC.
Most of them use a 20oz tank and I think that relates to about 1lb in fuel weight.
New ground being broken here.

WG

RE: Electrified Partner
 

the e-engines are lighter but the batterys wiegh ALOT.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

The weights of a power system, glow or electric giving equal flight time are pretty even I'd think when you count the weight of the fuel. The 10s4p 8000mah will give you about 23 minutes of flight time. If what I hear holds true about the weight limit going away in F3A, then all this is no issue at all.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Especially if you subtract the 8+ ounce receiver battery and replace it with a UBEC (1 ounce)...

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Can you give me some details on the UBEC? I was wondering if we could do that.

I did some weighing of items, and right now it looks like the weight with the 4p packs will be just over the 5kg limit. 3p's would put it 13 ounces lighter, so I'd be well within. I'm going to do a few things to try to lighten some more, like aluminum screws, nylon gears in the servos, aluminum spinner adapter, etc. and I may get it under the limit with the 4p's.

One thing to keep in mind when discussing weight, you can't just compare the weights of the batteries, motor, controller to the glow power system. You can build the model much lighter for electric then for glow when you realize it won't be getting the vibration pounding the glow planes get now. Servo mounts, control linkage systems, hatch attachments, etc., can all be lighter. I'll post what the bare airframe weighs when I finish.

Mike,

Thanks for the kind comments. I don't think I'll ever be an F3A competitor again. I'm pushing 50 yrs old now and frankly I think F3A is a young man's event. It's just too complex for my available time anymore. The patterns are too complicated and the unkown throws a whole new loop into it. I'm planning right now on just dabbling with Masters. I'll do local meets and maybe go to the Nats every now and then. Just doing it for fun now!

Thanks!

RE: Electrified Partner
 

the UBEC (Ultimate BEC) is from koolflightsystems.com

Jeff Meyers is the proprietor and co-inventor of the product.

it's available in 4.8 and 6volt output models. I use them in all my planes. They are reliable and weigh virtually nothing. I cannot think of a reason not to use them in every high E powered application.

Good luck!


Rob

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Great info Doug and Tony, Keep it coming!!

GW

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

I think you misspelled ElectrifRied....LOL...sorry, bad joke around the shop. Looking good Tony. Curious about the Laz also when your done with it ;).

I'm gonna try and get my new plane(s) to be <5kg with the 10S4P pack just for the reason of being less load on the packs. And even though you "could" fly for 25 minutes at time, it's not recommended because of the heat build up on the motor and abuse on the batteries. Besides, if you need to fly for 25 minutes a practice flight, you need to just fly for fun....;). Break practice into 3-5 ten-minute flights. My opinion, but if you fly for any longer than that, I believe that you would be wasting valuable "learning" time. Let things settle in and learn from the mistakes (or gains) in the flight. And if it's one of those days, pull out the sport plane and have fun.

I chose not to run any BEC on my planes, not because of the BEC's themselves, just the thought of something going wrong with the pack. Having my luck, it would be the pack designated for the BEC that was the problem and I'd be out of a plane. Thrust me, if I thought I could get away with it, I would (on my plane, not the borrowed ones), but I like that little bit or reassurance.

As for weight....Obviously the 6100's were the big saver, but believe it or not, grams were counted when doing this project. Aluminum and titanium screws and nuts were used throughout (and we couldn't get the aluminum servo screws in time). We weighed a few different brands of product and chose the lightest ones (plug alert, Du-bro wheels were the lightest, including the park-flyer tailwheel). Fiberglass/Balsa laminates (couldn't get the honeycomb in time) and carbon plate, all lightened up as much as possible. It's amazing how every little bit adds weight. We got so crazy as to think of removing things like Rx case and shrink-wrap on everything shrunk! Although I believe those were the REALLY LATE nights. Try weighing everything as you build your next project and see what you come up with. If/When I do another glow pattern plane, you can bet I will have PLASTIC fuel dots...

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

Thanks for chiming in Jason. I'll certainly keep in touch when I get these things going.

What about using two UBEC's, one on each 5s4p, then hook them up redundantly into the RX? Still lighter then separate batteries.

I did a search for aluminum hardware today and have got a bunch of aluminum socket heads from 4-40 to 1/4-20 coming. I also think the spinner could be a bit lighter. I'll give Tru-Turn a call and see what they think.

Anybody know if Ultracote is lighter then MonoKote?

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

Last I talked with Bob out at Tru-turn, they had thoughts about a special electric only spinner.. but we're reluctant to do it as it wouldn't tolerate an inexperienced used. Flex the backplate by tightening the cone too much and BOING.. lost spinner.

Ultracote is slightly heavier than Monokote.. Something like 1/2 ounce per square yard I think.

I found a link to the chart I used awhile ago.. http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/Hel...IOCWeight.html

Good info.

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

In my new extra, I run 4 ubec's. Two are in redundancy on each receiver, so that if one fails, the other one takes over. This was custom done by kool flight systems and they had to add diodes, etc on each end to keep from back feeding.

end result? if one receiver goes bad I still have lots of redundancy. if one or even two packs goes bad I still have full power to both receivers... if one ubec goes bad I still have total power as well...

Rob

the pic shows the 4 ubecs at the top of the page

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

Hello Guys,
Did you check out the new Irate lipolly cells they are supposed to be rated at a 10c discharge. And the biggest cell is 2600 ma I think. So maybe you can use less cels.
cheapbatterypacks.com has them.
There is also tanicpacs.com that sel the same lipolly cels in pacs, under a different name.
Check them out. I havent done the math so I don't know if they would be lighter then the TP packs, but it sounds as if they would be.
A 3p pack of the above mentioned cells should give you about 78 amps dicharge vs 48 amps for the TP You could even go to a 2p pack and still have 52 amps available.
I'm in not selling these cels, I'm also starting to get intersted in this electrical stuff, and have been doing some research.

John Salas

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

Checking the website data on the Irate's, it looks like a 3p pack of them would weigh slightly more then the 4p Thunderpower pack. A 2p Irate would weigh about the same as a 3p Thunderpower.

Not sure about current capability, that is still the big question.

Anybody using the Irate's?

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

How about the 2200's you get 66 amps for a 3p, I dont know the weight of the TP cells so I cant compare.

John

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

p3 ao40tkikeo309402-049402olrikfr94..........i'm confused[sm=confused.gif][sm=drowning.gif]:D

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

Raptor, so was I, but after some research i kinda got the hang of it. Some good info in the electric forum and also on rcgroups.com

John

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

When we did the watt meter test, it was drawing 65-67A on the ground, fully charged. I'd imagine it could get slightly higher in flight.

I didn't think about the dual UBEC's but makes sense.

I've seen some prototype TT electric spinners and they are lighter than the standard ones. I agree 100% with the concerns they have with over tightening, I've been known to bend a few lightened backplates. But I've learned with the electrics not to be so heavy handed.

RE: Electrified Partner ...plus
 

Actually the current should drop slightly as the load is reduced. Weight savings using dual UBEC should be at least 2 ounces over a 2000mah Duralite Plus. I'd wonder about just running a single UBEC. I'd be tempted to use one and save another 20 grams.

RE: Electrified Partner
 

Did you ever decide on a color scheme ?

Look on the internet

www.plprod.com

click on the picture of the pretty girl.
you can't read it unless you read french but lots of great color pictures

tommy s

RE: Electrified <span class=
 

Guys

How exactly are you attaching the prop to the motor. The shaft on Tony's motor sure looks like a YS crank shaft and thrust washer. Is that a commercial adapter, or is the end of a crank cut and drilled for the motor's shaft?

RE: Electrified <span class=
 

What you see in the pic is exactly what is supplied by Hacker. It's threaded 1/4-28, and the spinner and prop go on like any motor.

I just found a source for aluminum prop adapters for the Tru-Turn spinner. With that a few other things it's looking like I just might hit the weight limit.

Also, thanks for the PL link. I have researched that site for schemes. The one I think I'm going to use is a scheme I saw on a CA Models Fantasy.

RE: Electrified <span class=
 

Tony,

Where did you get the aluminum prop adapter for the Tru-turn? I'd like to get one myself.

RE: Electrified <span class=
 

Latest Flying Models mag in the U/C Stunt column.

http://www.us-aero.com/

RE: Electrified <span class=
 

Tony,

this is a great project,

do you mind posting some pics of the plane when you get a chance?

I looked at a pl lazulite last fall but they wanted so much for it.. Where did you get the kit?

are you using 8411's?

Are you aware of any potential CG issues? usually mods like this to a glow airframe make it hard to get the CG far enough forward.. Have you received your batteries yet?


Rob