RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

I thought this was a discussion about using the Showtime for beginning pattern.
No?
Seems like folks are having trouble.
If someone could answer with a specific alternative...
Thanks.
JLK

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

no trouble for me.... the plane flies straight and smooth, with great 3D too....

I'm using mine to practice IMAC when I don't want to fly my gasser

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

I flew the plane 4 or 5 times that day and it never snapped on me.

My right stab was out 1 degree out of the box, easy to fix if you do it before
you drill and tap the stab tub.

I did take my time and used a laser incidence meter and a Hitec digital
servo programmer to set up everything just right. I have the elevator
servo's programmed perfectly so the radio has all end point set to 130,
all sub trims set to 0, and all dual rate numbers are equal in both directions.

I read about the snapping and decided to disregard it until I had set-up and
flown it myself. So far it flies solid... I did do a couple of Walls into a hover
and it never snapped. I also did the lateral balance test... dive straight down
with low throttle and pull to level flight, no snapping.

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Not suprising it doesn't snap using 3D rates and doing a Wall. Most of those reports of unexpected snapping sounded like they were using a lot of elevator, but not all of the 3D travel available, so they were getting it into a typical acceleratde stall without ever transitioning into "3D Barndoor mode". I would expect a snap in that case, especially if the airframe is overweight at 10 lbs. Go spend $7K on your favorite 40% whatever and it will do the same exact thing. Everything sounds quite normal actually.

I haven't flown mine yet, will hopefully have some weather for it this weekend.

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Give it 1/8 inch left rudder trim (at the front of the counter balance), take two asprin and call me in the morning.

For pattern flying, I recommend 10 degrees of elevator throw. It does everything smooth at this rate. It will not snap out no matter what at this rate. I do recall the one I flew needed some left rudder trim for pattern flying as well for hands off up lines.

Don

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Hey, I finally got some air time with the Showtime this weekend. Saturday ended early due to a stripped out geartrain in a 9411, but it revealed much about throw adjustments needed and also that I had some fuel draw problems. Those ailerons are hugely effective, WOW! This is thefirst airplane Ihave not been able to keep up with the full roll rate for 3D rollers and I had to dial it down a fair bit, so now I have something nearerhe recommended throws. I tried using all the throw I could get at first, which was good for a few laughs, but that was about all.

Anyway... today, much better re. the engine fuel draw after adding a pressure tap on the tuned pipe. Now if only the main bearing hadn't gone bad, things would have been even better. Tried the SFGs - wow, lotsa effect there. I was somewhat surprised at how much they seem to blank out some of the wing area and reduce aileron effectiveness during lower speed, high yaw angles. I expected some effect, but there comes a point when there is a very sudden rolling imparted, which really doesn't characterize itself as a normal snap. It's more like 25% of the area on the one wing just went away and it rolls decisely, but fairly cleanly in the opposite direction to the rudder being applied. I guess I'm just overdoing things as I am still learning the airplane.

It sure is fun though. Once I got the feel for it a little better, rollers were effortless (3D and otherwise). KE Loops, a breeze. Pinwheels, can't seem to get through the last 1/3 too well yet, but the first 2/3 is impressive. Good waterfalls, not much tendency to roll out. Very nice Walls, upright and inverted. I have to work on it, but I think it can probably do a knife edge Wall. Harriers are OK, probably needs some aileron reflex to help stabilize a little better. TRs, though I am fairly rusty with them right now, seem pretty well behaved. Blenders and stationary flat spins are A-OK. Actually, not quite stationary yet, just a very slow descent rate, but I think it will work out with a better prop on it. Currently using 15x10 APC pattern cut, may need something with more authority for low speed work. The OS 90 with the ES CF pipe works real well. The isolation mount works great. It's very quiet, very smooth and the throttle transition is reasonably good. I think that when the main bearing is replaced, that will straighten out even more. Maybe a little more nitro too - using only 15% right now.

Did the Masters once through with the SFGs removed and it's respectable enough. I have done nothing of any real substance to trim it yet, so it is bound to improve, but it was very reasonable. I think it will meet all the expectations I had, I just have to learn more about how those little SFGs affect things. Thinking about making a set of my own to try to reduce some of the unwanted effects, we'll see.

Thumbs up!

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Hey NJRCFLYER2

Just a fair warning about those KE Walls. The SFG's are very thin and fragile. They will not hold up in high speed/high drag manuvers.

Glad to hear that you like the plane. Keep flying it and you'll soon love it. I do mine!

Good Luck!

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

i seen one of these babies fly this weekend:

Satio 100
DS 811 elevators and ailerons
8417 rudder

flew 3d and imac very well to include T-rolls.

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

well i just had to get me one hope to maiden it soon with a YS-120

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Hmmm... to my admittedly ignorant (of things Pattern) eye, the ST looks quite similar to the photos of F3A ships I see. I would imagine that a true Pattern airplane wouldn't have those huge control surfaces; but aside from that, what's the difference? I'm not even considering those SFG thingies; I'm talking about the basic airframe shape/lay-out.

Like exeter_acres, I bought one for a back-up IMAC/knock-around plane. Maidened it today. I have an incidence issue (I think; I'm carrying excessive aileron trim. Won't know for sure until I put the meter to it), but it flies pretty good as is. That is to say, better than I can hold it. It was far to windy to do any serious trimming, but I think the plane has potential for what I want it to do.

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Take a look at the setup for pattern that's in the Jan `06 R/C report. Those are what I am going to use for sport and such.
Gary Smith
aka Red Baron Gary

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

we are talking bad to the bone with knife-edge I did not have to put a mix on this bird. This is the first bird that has not required any mix to fly true knife-edge. I have had some that only required a negative one or two for elevator or ailerons. I started with 15/21/30 on three different flight modes for the ailerons. I had to dial those babies down it was blazing fast on all settings. I now have 11/15/20. I can do sweet rolling elevators with the 20 degree 3d throws. Elevators come down very quickly. I did not have any rocking on elevators; I did not try any harriers. I did try a blender and a few walls. The plane tears up the walls. My blender went south and turned into a wing over wing type of spin. I will work that out on other flights. I like the CG at the factor setting of 7 7/16. Inverted flight is very good. The bird flys very clean, I did a few stall turns and big loops and they were very clean very little rudder input if any to do these movements. The wind was up pretty good for the maiden and the bird is knocked around on those gusts. I am running that 17 x 6 APC and on this bird it is very fast. I will also try a 17 x 4; I want to be able to keep my speed up for the IMAC/Pattern stuff for this bird. I did not try any waterfalls. I did try a t-roll and noticed that I am going need to be quick on up elevators as it want to fall forward for the one or two times I tried it. I think the wind has a lot to do with that move. Total weight is 9 lbs 4 oz. A few people that saw the vertical of the plane came over after I landed and commented, “I see you went with something bigger than the recommend Satio 100.” This bird takes so little of any input to get a response that I had to put expo on all my settings after the maiden to try to look smoother. I went with 20 on ailerons and 60-70 on elevator and 20/50 on rudder. I forgot to take the side things so I will have to check that out next time. I hope that the next time out I will not have any wind so that I can see what all is going on. This bird is one of those type of birds that will replace a few birds in your hanger that was a very easy to tell observation today.

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Yes, I noticed that mine is wind-sensitive too. Must be the light weight; mine is 9 pounds 10 ounces dry.

And the control surfaces are incredibly sensitive; I had to cut 'way back on throw and go with 80% expo to slow the roll rate down to where I wanted it. 60% expo on elevator.

Agreed; I'm looking forward to flying it on a calm day. Gotta get that aileron trim thing sorted out though...

I would still like my question answered; why is this airplane less than desirable for Pattern flying?

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Steve Campbell
any bird can be used that will perform the moves that are needed for your level; however, some birds as you know makes u look and feel better:D I think this showtime will be blown up and scaled down like the u can do so that all/everyone has one. look out showtiem and gas and showtime and a 46 os motor.

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

There already is a 40-sized ShowTime... its called the Goldberg Matrix...:D

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Anyone have a h-stab incidence problem with the Showtime. My left stab is +1.75 degrees when compared with the right stab. Anyone know where the reference line is and what the stabs should be compared to the reference. Thanks.

John VB

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Is the HS475HB adequate for elevator. With 2 servo (one for each stab) it will have 71oz of torque for each stab. I don't do 3D and will be setting this ST for pattern type of flying.

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Are you saying that with this plane you can kill 3 birds with one sentence?

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Advent, I am considering the ST for a next plane. How is the plane working out?
I want a pattern flying type plane and also IMAC. 3D ok but already have a Funtana 40 size.
I am interested in your setup. I have a NIB OS 120 Surpass III w/pump. Is this what you are using?
The OS 120 w/pump has more stuff on the back and I question if it has room to fit in the fuselage?
I have 4 Hitec 645 metal gear servos.
Most likely put servos in tail if available.
Do you use the pull-pull cable?
Thanks

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

I went with the showtime for a in expensive pattern practice
plane for 3 reasons...

1) Don S. said it flew nice in the beginning of this thread.
1a) I have seen Don fly and respect his opinion. ;)

2) I got a great price on the Showtime NIB from a Friend.

3) The OS 120 was free.... just needed bearings! ;)

I do think it is a nice pattern plane if you turn down the throws
like Don recommended. That said I don't compete and I don't
think I am that great a flier. I have also never owned a true
pattern plane so I don't have anything to compare it to.

For servo's I used 5645 digitals but only because I could use them in
a larger plane in the future... the other guys here can comment on
digitals and if they are needed.

I also used SWB aluminum servo arms and ball links. Again so
I could use them on a larger plane so time.

I placed the rudder servo in the tail and it balanced fine with the
Rx pack (li-ion 2400mah) slightly behind the canopy line.
I used a simple regulated switch (MPI Miracle Switch) and it
has worked great... I can fly a couple of days without recharging.

I left the tank in the stock location since I did not have a pump
on my OS (free engine) a tank over the CG and a pump would be a
nicer setup.

I used the motor mounts that came with the plane... I slotted the screw
mounting holes to fit the wider OS engine... works great.

I added 2 thin washers under the left engine mount after a few trim
flights to correct the up-lines.

I set up the plane with tripple rates low is Don's recomended low,
mid it the H9's low rate in the manual, and high is the recomended
high or insane rate! ;)

90% of the time I fly on the low rate and try to fly something that
looks like pattern! ;)

RE: Showtime for Pattern flying?
 

Advent, thanks for the info. That helps.