RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Very interesting Don!

Can you explain what did you find when you tried better aileron servos? Wings locked in during loops, pushes and pulls?

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

The wings were more parallell at the top and around the back side- they felt more locked.

All the best,
Don

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

I have been watching this thread since it started and have had my Brio flying for several months. I'm very happy with the way it flies with only one exception. I dives faily hard when the rudder is pushed either way. The same is true for knife edge. (tucks to gear). Even small, trim amounts of rudder send the nose to the ground. I have mixed this out w/ the radio(4-5% up elevator slaved to rudder) but this causes its own set of problems when doing stall turns. Has anyone else had this problem w/ your Brio and how did you solve it??????

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

I have the same observation as yours. My KE goes slightly to the belly side, same with level flight. But Ive only flew my Brio about 15 flights so far, in fact, I havent mixed the rudder and the elevator yet. My initial observation is that the rudder of this plane is very effective that my expo is 80% but still very sensitive. I'll mix it this sunday, I just hope it'll be around 3% mix and not go beyond that.

But other than that it flies sweet. Makes pattern flying alot more easier and alot less input from the pilot.

Another observation is that when I pull to vertical it goes to the left. Im thinking I need more right thrust but am not that sure. Hope you guys could help me out.

CG: 8 inches
Incidence: Stab 0%, Wings .5 % positve
Power: YS160 w/ 4 blade APC

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Does the plane behave the same in inverted flight? Does it pull up or down with rudder input?

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Yes, it does climb when inverted and using the rudder.

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Lower the stab? Had to do the same with an older plane...

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Any one else???

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Aresti: You are referring to re-installing the stab lower on the fuselage??

Thanks,,,,,,,,,,Dave

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Jimbo

My Brio has about 30 flights on it now. My CG is slightly ahead of 8" (maybe 1/8") and I am carrying slightly more positive in the wing than the instructions call for. Stab at recommended incidence. My elevators are in nuetral and my Brio very slightly tucks to the belly in knife edge. Vertical downlines very straight for abou 200-250 then very slight pull to the canopy. I mixed my knife edge pitch out using the radio, took about 2-3% but keep in mind the knife edge only takes a small amount of rudder so the actual mix used is more like .5 - 1.0 %
Don

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Dave,

As you said, I re-installed the stab in my Lazulite about 1/2" lower to remove most of the down pitch. I drilled new holes for the stab tube and alignmet peg. Unfortunatelly the plane was lost after a few flights due to Rx failure caused by vibrations (I lost two Rx more in the ground with the same engine/mount combo)

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

To compare notes, I am running 85% expo, but the throw left and right is set at approximately that of the servo (I'm using standard length control arms and the rudder control arms are equal in length to the servo arms, and 100% ATV).

If you look at the pictures of the built up rudder, you'll notice that the back of the rudder that I built up is thick- about 3/8 inch thick at the back. You can get the same effect by gluing a piece of 3/8 inch wide by 1/32 inch ply strip on the back. This softens up the neutral and gives a more natural feel for the rudder. It also makes the rudder trim more dampened so its easier to trim out for up and down lines.

My plane tucks to the belly with left rudder, but not right. My CG is about 8 inches back. The CG location has some influence on this, and I like the forward CG. I use rudder-to-aileron mix for knife edge and leave the mix in at all times. I don't noticed pitching at all during a stall turn. The rudder effectiveness is there, but I really think this is a highlight of the plane. The rolling loops and one roll circles are very controlled and quite a joy to fly.

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

For vertical up lines, I mix in about 2 % right rudder for full throttle, and 1% left rudder at low throttle. These start in at 3/4 and 1/4 throttle respecively. Try this and you will not need to add in as much right thrust using a 4 blade prop. Also, if you go back to a 2 blade prop you can take some of the mix out (you will find that you will not need as much right thrust with a 2 blade as compared to a four blade).

Don

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Don you've mentioning percentages with regards to the rudd-throt mix.
What is this in real terms? Inches or cm?
How much does the rudder move either side of neutral?

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Don,
Thanks for the info. If I'm understanding your advice, I should leave well enough alone and accept this minor annoyance as a charactaristic of this plane. This is fine as everything else about the way this plane flys in perfect. Up and down lines are straight as could be and are hands "hands off". I never really noticed any excessive rudder sensitivity, Mine still has the "stock" rudder on it which is about 1/4 inches wide in back.
Thank again for the info/

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Don,

How close does the standard version of the Brio F3A fly to the deluxe version of the Brio??
Also, does it weight about the same or is there a big different between the standard and
the deluxe?? Do you know anyone who used the Hacker A60 series in the brio yet? How does
it perform in it? Where can you get one now, Piedmont Models is closed?

Thanks,
Team3d

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Hello- my deluxe brio (the one I bought from Mr. Steve Wall and flew last year) is 10 lbs 15.97 oz. The standard models, which I'm flying this year are both around 10 Lbs 4 oz. But this is difficult to compare. The deluxe was one of the first ones out with standard setups, not much attention to weight. The stadard onesI built pretty much stock, but with some weight saving ideas as described in this thread. So how you build makes a difference. The Deluxe has a CG around 8 3/4 to 9 inches back, the standards have a CG of around 8 inches back. The standard ones fly better due to the lighter weight, forward CG and other factors to include thicker rudder TE that I built in, stronger rudder servo, and they are tighter because they are newer. Aerodynamically, all the Brios fly basically the same. Good luck finding a kit- there are a few floating around but you have to search hard.

Mixes, I'll have to check, but I don't think the rudder moves back and forth with the thottle. Maybe 3/32 left on the down and between 0 and 1/8 right at full throttle, depending on the prop I'm using. 2 blades needed less than 4 blades. Thrust line has an impact on this as well.

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Jimbo,

I am flying a standard Brio with an AXI 5330/F3A and I am slightly over 11 lb with the wing tube, stab tube, landing gear still the original aluminum. I can take about 5 oz out of the plane just by substituting carbon gear, tubes, etc, and get under the 11 lb limit.

As far as the Hacker A60, the S series is lighter than the AXI by about 2 oz if I remember right, but the M series is heavier than the AXI. I haven't heard much about the A60 S series yet as far as how they are performing over time and how the power is. My son has a A60-S 22 in his Lazulite and says it has plenty of power using 20" props but has been having controller issues with his Hacker 77 so he doesn't have much time on it at this point. His Lazulite is right at 11 lb also.

I find the Brio flies well as long as you don't get it too slow, then it really wallows around. It lands heavy, there is no floating down the runway but it is honest and doesn't drop a wing or anything like that. In the air, it feels much lighter than the 11 lbs as long as you keep it at a reasonable speed. You don't have to be rocketing along by any stretch of the imagination and I imagine taking 1/2 to 3/4 lb out would make a huge difference.

It snaps and spins well with reduced throw on the rudder and will spin slowly inverted or upright by backing out of the ailerons a little.

I only have about 25 flights on it at this point, but I think I like it. Will know for sure at about 500 flights ;-)

Don

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

I decided to remove the rudder and replace it with
a built up one.

Inside my fuse is a rudder post and a lot of glue. It
is set back from the original bevel line ofr the rudder
about 1/4".

Looks like I have 2 options...

Add more balsa and sand in a new bevel or remove the
old post and all the glue i can then make a new balsa
post.

Thanks for the help

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Kelly,

Remove the existing post (it' wasn't designed to bear a hinged rudder load). Replace it with a 3/8" rudder post shaped to fit exactly into the opening so it holds the sides straight.

Now here's the secret! Only insert 1/4" of the 3/8" depth of the post into the tail, leave 1/4" sticking out. The 1/8" excess is then beveled so the bevel on the rudder doesn't have to be giant in order to get full rudder deflection.

Keith B

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Keith... not trying to ba smart, but did you mean to say a
1/2" rudder post?

I will cut out the original rudder post and clean everything
up tonight

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

No, I meant make a rudder post out of 3/8" thick balsa. Cut out a piece that will fit exactly into the opening of the tail post (whatever the size).

See if the attached illustration clarifies.

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

Keith, thanks for the picture, I get it now.

When you said 1/4" inside and a 1/4" sticking
out for the bevel it threw me off.

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

I have the standard kit and plan to spray it with PPG Concept early in the Fall. I plan to prime only areas like seams ,etc. that require filler and /or sanding in an effort to keep weight down. For those who have experience with this particular model , would a light scuffing of the white fuse provide a satisfactory base for color coats or did you find it necessary to prime the entire thing ?

RE: BRIO Construction by the numbers
 

I painted my std Brio without using primer, after about 50 flights, the PPG Concept paint has not let go in any areas.

I did sand the gel coat with about 400 grit and cleaned thoroughly before painting the colors.

Worked fine for me.

Woodie