RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi Brenner, I think the manual talks about putting in 10% negative differential so I'm guessing the top hinging over compensates the differential you would normally put in.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Which font is the middle one? I like that one the best.

Thanks!
Verne Koester

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I just finished mine tonight: YS170, Hatori pipe and header, Hyde ARIA mount (this adds nose weight.)
Futaba 6014Rx, BLS451's on ailerons, BLS351 on rudder 3421SA's in stabs.
15x12x4 APC and True Turn spinner.

It is so nose heavy it isn't funny! I sure hope it needs to be at 185mm because it's going to take an effort just to get it there.

I have not weighed it yet. It sure feels light... but only the scale will tell. I was planning to use an 1100mah A123 battery unregulated.

I may be forced to change the spinner... but I'll see how far back I can get the battery. Also a 2 bladed prop may weigh less...

Quality is "okay" but not stellar. I am quite happy how it turned out however. Incidences etc seem to be a-okay.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Based on how similar this plane is to the Twister, I would just leave it where it is, fly it and go from there. No point in putting a bunch of effort in to move the CG back when it doesn't need to be.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi crhammond (& others if able to respond),

If you used the phenolic horn that came with the kit what size servo arm did you use? The distance between the rudder horn attachment points is about 55mm and the biggest horn that comes with the BLS451 that I bought for rudder control is much narrower than this. Did you use a different servo horn to that supplied with the BLS servo?
Can you advise the best size servo arm to get the required travel on rudder?

All the best, Simon

PS. When I read your post I realised that I bought the wrong BLS servo for the job BLS451 rather than the BLS351, I'm now kicking myself!!! Hopefully it will do the job ok.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: can773

Based on how similar this plane is to the Twister, I would just leave it where it is, fly it and go from there. No point in putting a bunch of effort in to move the CG back when it doesn't need to be.


Chad, it is REALLY REALLY forward. It balances around 140mm right now with no battery... If I put the battery in the tail (which I can't since I can't get back there anyway) it gets to about 160mm.
Time to quit - I dinged the canopy trying to balance it. Nothing major that can't be fixed but it ticks me off when I haven't even run the motor yet. *SIGH*

I may post pics... try and figure out why it is so far forward.

I do have a small header tank over the gear. Just a 2oz tank. I can remove it but it's not going to make much of a difference. The 17x12 prop I have is heavier than the 15x12x4... Maybe I can find a lighter prop. I'll try removing the spinner and see where that puts it. The spinner back plate is pretty heavy.

How far forward is too far forward? I'm used to my big gassers where I am always having to move them back a bit from recommended to get them to stall for spin entries.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

You need to find or make a 2.3" spaced arm so that the geometry will be correct for your pull-pull cables. I have not checked my throw on the rudder yet but I am easily able to max-out the throw with the existing slots that are filed in the rudder. I'm not sure if I will need more than that (sometimes on Comp-arf's you need to file the slots a little longer.)

I used the wheel that comes with the BLS351 and made a phenolic arm from some scrap phenolic I had. You can make one from CF or G-10 or you may be able to find something long enough. The Dubro ones are not long enough. Several manufacturers make 2.5" aluminum arms that you could use - you'll just have to adjust the slots where the pull-pull wires come out slightly.

The BLS servos are REALLY smooth! And they sound really cool - the brusless motor has a lower tone to it.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I would leave it at 140 or 150 from the LE, thats pretty close to where my Twister is. It will fly fine to start with that CG I am sure, then you can adjust as required. There has just been a huge discussion on the NSRCA list about trimming and it really relates to this. Its worth going to the NSRCA website and digging through the list archive for the past couple of weeks and reading all the trimming threads.

The 451 or 351 will do the job on rudder, the 351 is really powerful and quick and requires a good setup otherwise its easy to get a twitchy looking rudder input., but otherwise works perfectly.

Akiba was running a 451 on his rudder in Argentina, so don't worry if thats what you have :)

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

crhammond - thanks for that, I think I'll make up a suitable arm using phenolic laminated with CF, I've laminated all the phenolic horns in the kit in this way to reduce flex (I admit it was just plain fun to do aswell!!).

Chad - if it's good enough for Akiba I shouldn't have any issues!! Thanks for that.

All the best, Simon

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks Chad - I have seen all the mail on trimming but not had a chance to read it. To go from 140mm to 185mm I would need 12oz in the tail!!!!
Depending on what the airplane weighs - and what the trimming articles say - I may elect to use a bigger pack and put it fairly far back.

185mm is way back on that wing - and 205mm - WOW you'd need a 120 size engine out front to make it. I guess I went a little too far on making sure the firewall was in there well and used a couple extra oz of Hysol.

As long as it's not so far forward that it's hard to slow it down than I'm not so worried for the maiden.

Maiden is still 2or 3 weeks away here in Edmonton... I think. Unless we get some super warm days.

Everything I built this winter came out way nose heavy for some reason...

Chris.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Chris,

My current CG position on my Integral is at the leading edge of the tube. I felt the plane was hard to manage at the recommended CG position.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I just read the article Chad mentioned that Brian wrote up. Awesome stuff... step by step but much more informative than the Goldberg method (which is also good and what I have been using for IMAC.)
Man I have a lot to learn!

Tomorrow will be a good day. I will run in the engine and take some more measurements. I'm sure I'm just tired right now and I can figure something out.

As long as it's in a nice safe range I will be able to follow the "Triangulation Trimming" process and figure out what it really needs.

I also need to get set up properly for measuring everything... I have the tools I just need a better table and more patience :)

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi Glen . .

Is that measured with wings on or off ???

Thanks,

JB

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

...with the wings off.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

The national Masters Champ should know - thanks for posting Glen :)

So - I am happy now. I placed the battery as far in as I could reach into the TD and still undo the Velcro. Now I am at 160mm - which is right on the front of the wing tube. 190mm is the rear of the tube. 205mm is way back there... I think maybe it is a misprint??? If I do need to move weight back I can use the light back plate or a CF spinner, plus move the header tank... so I do have some easy ways to adjust the CG now.

Anyway - I have yet to weigh the plane and will run the motor this evening for the first time. The plane feels light but I may be a little on the heavy side give how nose heavy I am... next time around I will not be so heavy handed with the firewall.

Now if the snow would finish melting I could get out and start trimming.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

And the fish scale says - 10lbs 6oz - and that's with the heavy 6oz battery. I knew it felt light! I did nothing to save weight here either... in fact; heavy spinner, header tank, heavy battery and a several servo wires that can be trimmed back.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

What is the weight of the 1.70 with the header?

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hatori headr 64g
YS 170 955g
Hatori 821 muffler... I didn't weigh it but it is very light...

The only reason I am so nose heavy is my firewall install went a bit too far on the epoxy and re-enforcing. The motor and muffler combo is not heavy at all.

The ARIA with the integrated nose ring and beam adds weight also...

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

hi all!
just got my Integral!
Mine is all white ...kit looks great.
fire wall and UC seems a bit heavy...change the firewall to 3mm ply but rest i will use!

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Did someone buy the crbon canopy ?

If so ,how much it weighs?

Thanks
Shlomi Chester

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi
I'm ready to paint my bird!
Mine is white so i can do my own color design, as i think there will be a lot off the arf's this summer.
I heard that there have been some problem to paint this planes , some problem to get the clear coat to stick.
its seems that the clear pulls away from the white surface!
I'm going to use acrlylic base whit 2 K clear on top .
What i will use any way is a silicone cleaner( dont know if this is correct english) to remove all off the mold wax that may still be on the white , I have also wet sanded all the surfaces with grit 600 .
somone have some experiences here????

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi
I Don't think silicone cleaner is the right material
Silicone reject acrlylic paints
But I have wet sanded it to ,before the acrlylic base whit that I used of Dupont.
Dont worry it is not aproblem after sanded .
Good luck.

Shlomi Chester.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Nice lookin Integral S-Chester. Do you have any other pictures of it you could post? Thanks Mike

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks for answering S-Chester
then i go for the base.... i use RM base paint (acrylic)

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

of course I have mor pictures it is the baby