RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

My canopy with cockpit weighed 7.7 ounces. I imagine that the fiberglass and the carbon fiber will be significantly lighter. I imagine atleast 3 ounces with the clear canopy may be 4 with the carbon fiber. I am still dying to know the CG.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Yeah we are all waiting for that.
I am just putting things together that need to where they are, such as servos and engine Pipe floor etc.
After that I will not go any further until I get a good idea where the cg should be.

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

i saved i think it was 91 gr ( what that is in ounces i dont know) on my cockpit job on my TS Oxalys , i removed the c.floor and molded on in carbon if i had used a better carbon cloth i think i would saved maybe antoher 5 gr had to add some 50gr\m2 fiberglass at the inside.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

i saved i think it was 91 gr ( what that is in ounces i dont know) on my cockpit job on my TS Oxalys , i removed the c.floor and molded a canopy in carbon inside the old one, if i had used a better carbon cloth i think i would saved maybe antoher 5 gr had to add some 50gr\m2 fiberglass at the inside.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

OK, back home and trying to get caught up, sorry for the delay. Here's my set-up as I'm currently flying it on my 14MZ:

Aileron High Rate: 28mm at root
Aileron Low Rate: 21mm at root
Expo High Rate: 50%
Expo Low Rate: 30%

Elevator High Rate: 26-up, 26- down at root
Elevator Low Rate: 15-up, 16- down at root
Expo High Rate: 60%
Expo Low Rate: 20%

Rudder High Rate: 50mm at top
Rudder Low Rate: 42mm at top
Expo High Rate: 60%
Expo Low Rate: 45%

Center of Gravity: 205mm from LE back at root ;) This is where I have it now. It seems to be a good starting point CG. I don't think I'll be moving mine on my new one's, I like the way it feels here.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi elmer,

I answered below your questions.

1). I asked you once before about adhesives. Just curious, how did you attach the clear
plastic part of the canopy to the red base and how is it holding up.

- I went the lazy way and used foam safe Zap. Not the cleanest way to attach it, but it's still on with any signs of letting go. Make sure you scuff (220 grit) the edge of the canopy and the edge of the frame and clean with alcohol before gluing it.

2). I was fitting the undercarriage last night I noticed when drilling the holes in the bottom of the
fuse that there appeared to be a space in the material between the inside of the fuse bottom and
the underside of the internal carbon undercarriage plate on the inside of the fuse.

- You can fill the gap with some epoxy and microballoon mix. Just make sure to not get it in the blind nuts.

3). I was thinking of using ZN line horns, do you think that would be Ok. It seems as though
there are blocks under the control surfaces to take different types of horns as opposed to
just using the ones provided.

- I don't see why these won't work, but since the blocks are balsa, I would maybe try and drop in some small dowels for the screws, of at least over-drill the holes and fill them with 24hr epoxy and milled fiber so the screws have something more firm to bite into. Also long screws will help. Not sure about this, but maybe some long screws with some thick Zap to hold them in? Any opinions on this?

4). I noticed earlier in the build thread that there was a photo of the rudder pin partially
installed with a 90 degree bend at the bottom, presumably you cut out a slot in the bottom
of the rudder for this to sit in, and I guess that the tail wheel bracket stops it falling out. Did
you glue the pin in place or not to allow the rudder to be removable.

- No need to cut a slot. Just push it against the bottom (or top if you don't mind looking at it) and use some clear tape (Ace Hardware Scotch 3M 23-8085 Decorate and repair tape) to hold it in. No glue.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks for the Info. Are you running diffrential with the top hinged ailerons?

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks Jason.
Do you like to fly your plane on the tail heavy side or nose heavy.

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I have used ZN horns for a while on foam wings, I just router the sheeting and foam out to accept a 1/8" thick lite ply plate, epoxy that on and screw the horns directly into it with the screws that come with the horns (they are short, maybe 1/4" long). I have never had one pull out. If you are screwing into just balsa then I would agree with Jason that it would be a good idea to add something more for the screws to bite into to.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Well I have my integral about 3/4 finished.
If there is anyone planning on using an OS 1.40RX be prepared to either have a custom header made. The firewall is much higher then any other Pattern ship I have seen.

There are a few things with rudder and stab I am not real happy with but did over come one of them.
When I had the Stab halves installed I noticed some slop at the wing tube in the stab halves and through the fuse. There was just a slight amount of play but completly unacceptable. I think the stab tube is slightly undersized. I ended up epoxying the stab halves to the wing tube and through the fuse. I have no reason to remove the stab. It is now solid.

I am not happy with the amount of throw that the hinging system allows for the rudder. I am only able to get 25 degrees each side of center. It seems like the hinges hit the inside of the rudder. I am afraid to remove any material from that area for fear of weakening the hinging system. Anyone have any thoughts for that one?

The main wing mounting system is okay but the fuel tank makes getting those nylon thumb screws on a real pain. Any ideas how we can eliminate them for a more favorable setup?

Other then that she seems to be a fine airplane. I hope she flies as good as she looks.
Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

In case anyone is iterested, I have finished my integral all but some fuel lines. The final weight of the plane came in at 9lbs 10oz
I am using an OS 1.40 for power and an older style Long and thin ES Carbon Fiber Pipe. I used this pipe mainly for the thin diameter. The pipe tunnel on the integral is a bit small. I mounted the engine using a Hyde soft mount with built in nose ring. Tru Turn 3 1/4" 3-blade spinner APC 15.75 x 10 3-blade prop, Bolly Carbon Fiber landing gear and dubro 3 1/4 diamond lite wheels. I did not install the wheel pants. They never seem to last long enough for the effort of installing them. I set the CG at 7 1/2 inches as a starting point. I thought 8" was a little on the tail heavy side. I did some figuring to get the approx. wing cord and worked from there. Some of my friends suggested some other formulas for fiding the CG and that moved that figure further forward. So with Jason having a plane that flies at 205mm (8") i thought it safe to set CG at 7 1/2" at the fuse back from the leading edge. With that CG I have the receiver and battery mounted just in front of the rudder servo.

I will post some pics if anyone would like to see. (if I can figure how to do that)

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Here are some PICS (I hope)


Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Carl,

Plane looks great. The CG has been moved back from where I started (180mm) cause I felt it was very nose heavy. The current CG isn't tail heavy that I can tell, still needs down on inverted and 45's.

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Thanks Jason.
I am playing it safe with the CG I will start at 7 1/2" (190mm)
I would rather be nose heavy the first couple flights.

I am waiting on a Carbon Fiber canopy, Karl Mueller header and Aeroslave pipe. After that is installed the plane should weigh in at 9 1/2 lb It weighs in now with the stock canopy and a header I fabricated myself with an ES composite pipe at a 9 lb 14 oz. I am very pleased with the overall quality of the model.

Feel free to use my pictures on your site or the composite arf site.

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

CHV69
why do you use 3 blade prop on the RX ?



JAS
what is the HATORI Header(822 or 823) you hav used ys 160 dz on Integral ?

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

It improves down line braking and is much quieter than a 2 blade. It also gives a smoother transition from slow to fast. It helps with a touchy throttle. Gives you the feel of only 3 speeds. slow medium and fast.

It is an APC 15.75 x 13 repitched to a 15.75 x 10 I turn about 8100 - 8300 RPM.

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Ahhh, is there a difference? Will have to do some searching. Is the pipe labeled somewhere?

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

822:


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9...2hatorihi1.jpg

823:
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6...23size1ia8.jpg[

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

well . I use the 18.1x10 & 18.5x9.5 of apc
on the rx 140 both gives much more thrust
than any other apc that I tryd
(18x10 ,17x12 ,16x14 ,3blade 15.75x12w , 4blade 15x10 )

I creature funny sounds from my caller after testing them .

I sincerely recommend you to test them .

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

JAS, any news about the big OS? I saw somewhere (probably a Japanese website) a new incarnation of the engine with an airbox (ala YS120AC) Is it still EFI?

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I have tried them. I used to use an APC 18 x 10 I like the conservative feel of the three blade although it doesn't produce as much thrust. It produces enough thrust to do any vertical manuever including hovering. I am very comfortable with the 15.75 x 10 3 blade.


Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

My ZDZ 40 was going into a different airframe but this Integral looks tempting. Are the primed Integrals still a option for bying? Also the website states that the Integral is no longer in production. Is this true? Anyone know the status of this?

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Hi
i am sure that the impact from composite - arf is not in product line
The integral is a new desing F3A plane andof course is in production just take a look in following site
http://www.composite-arf.com.hk/ar/Catalog

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

I was able to fly my Integral today.

AWESOME flyer. It has no bad tendences. Rolls are straight. inverted flight requires very little down elevator. (This will take some getting used to.) any mixes will be minimal. I think it will require a small amout of rudder to aileron, and some rudder to up elevator. These percentages will be small.

Carl

RE: Composite-ARF Integral, kinda build thread
 

Carl,

Were you able to get the Aeroslave pipe? How did it fit in the pipe tunel?

Thank you,
Kevin