RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Thanks Dean. Some punches are really tough to roll with. Been hit more than once myself. Wishing you and yours the best.
RC11
Rick, Cathie and Michael Cilles St.Clairsville, Oh

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Rick, (RC11)

okay now I know who I was talking too. Hope to see you guys next summer at the St.Clairsville, Oh field. I would love to come up for St.Clairsville pattern event, how many pilots did you guys have this year?

Mike wil chime in here but for JR servos:

ELE on deps 8411sa
rud 8611sa
ail 9411sa
throttle 3421

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

yep that's the servos. or a 331 on the throttle, either/or.

-M

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

That is a Sweet airplane Brian.
Humberto.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the help. Know anybody that could use some Futaba digis?

Have 2 9650
2 9151
1 9155
1 3101 All are brand new and never have seen volts

Thanks again,
RC11

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Thanks Humberto. We stay away from each other Humberto, yes!!LOL;) See you this weekend.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Here's a question for Mike or Dean...

I'm thinking of putting a ZDZ 40RE-F3A in mine. Do you guys have an idea of how much drop I want need on the header pipe? They offer a 0, 25mm and a 50mm drop header.

I would imagine I would have to put the elevator and rudder servos in the tail to balance. Any other suggestions to run this on gas?

Thanks

Shawn

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

About 25mm is about right.

Just soft mount the engine. Contact Merle Hyde, he can fix you up.

Other than that, just pay attention to the cooling as a gas engine runs hotter. Run an open pipe tunnel just like the 2 stroke version.

-Mike

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Rick,

On your choice of servos for your VF3. I would use a different elevator servo. I would find JR's equivalent to the 9254 futaba heli tail rotor servo. Something in the neighborhood for .06 transit time. You don't need the torque and Mike will tell you how sweet my setup is for elevator....

Arch

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Airtronics 94758 or JR 9417

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Did you mean 8417?

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

84, 94 whatever it takes!

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Let me introduce my self to the Forum. I am Srikar from VA, about to start building this beautiful pattern ship from next week. I am also looking for gas engines as power source. The question is, how far it is suited/recommended to use ZDZ gas engine on this ship without compromise on performance? Any body did put this engine on V2/VF3 yet? I will be really happy if Mike says this gas engine performs par with 160DZ under weight limits. I am from India and going to relocate back to India early next year. So it will be a great advantage to be able to use Gas engine on VF3 since nitro cost is crazy in India (abut $10 for 500ml nitro).

Any advice?

Thanks
Srikar.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

My Black Magic That I have now used to be a Gasser before i got ahold of it. I believe it had a Mvvs 1.60 but dont know exactly what the setup was. ohh by the way its a V2 not a three. great flying plane though.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Hi Srikar,

I do not have any experience with the ZDZ F3A motor. But what I can tell you is that you will have to build very light. The two completed vf3s I know of, Mike's Red beast and Archie's planes are in the 10 1/2 pound range. With the gas engine you will be very very close to 11 pounds. Also you will have to use taller electric style landing gear. You will need to be carefull with over heating and may need to enlarge the cowl air intakes, open more holes on the lower cowl chin and use air dams to direct the airflow over the engine. You will need to build a pipe tunnel for the longer carbon pipe. You will also need to get a custom Hyde mount made, call Merle Hyde, sorry I don't have his number, Mike will send it to you.

the biggest challenge for you will to build the plane as light as possible, only use the best, lightest wood and use all the expensive light weight hardware. you will need to save every ounce. You may consider covering the plane in monokote if you do not have much experience with fiberglass and paint. there is a lot of fuse area and the weight gains are big in finishing the fuse if you are not real careful.

My personal VF3 I just built is at 4 lbs 3 oz complete ready for finish - I think you will have to be that light or lighter if you want to make weight with the ZDZ. You basically need to build the plane as if it was an electric with just enough extra strength in the right areas. I looked at the ZDZ weights and it looks like you might end up 8 oz heaver than a typical YS installation.

If your not concerned about having the plane at legal weight, then just have fun with it and not worry. If you want to you can send me your motor and I can do some weights and balancing with the vf3 I have built and figure out some guide lines for you. or give me a total weight of everything, motor, mount, header, pipe, electrical, etc. and I can do some figuring for you.

let me know what I can do to help, I am interested in the ZDZ motor as well and would like to see you be successful with this project. The VF3 is a big plane and could be awesome with the ZDZ.

good luck and keep us posted,

dean

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Dean,
Thanks for the info. This is my first plane, so I am not having enough experience in painting the model. But i am working not less than 3 hours a day to learn this stuff to the maximum possible extent until I finsih this model.

But after reading your reply, I am not really confortable to go with ZDZ as I was before. Knowing what adjustments I need to do to the airframe to fit the ZDZ, I may run into problems with my level of experience. So I will rethink of going with ZDZ.

Thanks for the help.
Srikar

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

I would strongly consider the YS 160-170 or the OS 160 with Jon Lowe's mods. This plane needs power. The MVVS which Dan ran on the V2 won't be enough. The ZDZ may have it, but it's still experimental. You have to cut up the nose a lot, but it can be done.

As for weight, yes the 2 planes mentioned are 10 1/2 lbs, because that was the target weight. This plane is BIG and being masters pilots, I'm not sure I'd want it less than 10 lbs for anything but FAI. That's my personal opinion, right or wrong.

Weight is just one of those things that you have to be diligent about. If you want a 10 lb VF3, no problem. But you can't stab in the dark and get it. You have to pay attention to every single step of the build and especially the finish. I know of exactly 2 Black Magics that were overweight, and upon any inquiry at all they simply did not follow my instructions and didn't use a scale during important steps.

Examples:

How much glue did you use while sheeting the cores?
Did you weigh each and every piece of the sheeting, and follow my guidelines?
Did you thin the resin and use the micro baloon teqnique during the glassing stage?
How much primer did you actually sand off?
Did you weigh the plane before, after and during each application of a finishing step?
Did you double the monokote or just put on a base and then slap on extra trim all over it?
Did you build the plane as shown or decide something wasn't strong enough and add a bunch of extra stuff?
Did you use good light wood for the capping and blocks, or just whatever the hobby shop had on the shelf?

Etc etc etc.

If you don't use a scale often, how can you be sure of what's going on your plane? How can you control the weight if you don't even know what it is? If you're not weighing, you're guessing.

Just a few things I've run across over time. Learn from the other guy's mistakes, don't make your own ;)

Now I'm off to Jacksonville....cya Monday!
-M

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

What are the Jon Lowe mods for a OS 160?

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

It's not really mods to the engine as much as the setup he uses. I'm sure Jon will pop in, but he has a very strict way to set up the motor that is absolutely bullet proof. It is fuel flip and fly every time. Jon has LOADS of experience with this setup, and I havent found anyone who uses his setup to have anything but success. Jon knows the 1.60 inside and out.

Arch

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Hey Dean,
We didn't have a good turnout this year but next year I want to do everything possible to make the St.C contest the best it can be! The sight is Absolutely Fabulous as you can attest!!! 3800 ft of 75ft wide asphault less than a mile from I 70 with motels and restaraunts galore 4 miles away.The Alderman's that own the airport are some of the best folks in the world and have been more than gracious with the use of their facility the last 2 years and I think will be as generous in the future. Curtiss Alderman and I learned to fly together at the airport some 30 years ago and have remained friends to this day. You have to see him fly his 40# B-17. Really awesome!!! And really scale!!! Have you ever been to COM AIR? What a great contest! Ask Mike. That is a contest to model others after. Mark Atwood and Bob and Amy Pannel did a "Bang*-up" job there with even a night fly and super steak fry. 20 oz strip steaks and all the best fixins. Gonna make St.C one to remember next year. By the way Michael won every contest he entered this year with some great competition in sportsman. I think a Black Magic might help him to keep moving along.
RC11

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Arch
Thanks for the info.

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Rick,

I'm not sure what the servo is for .90 size heli's and JR's top Gyro. I know they have one with a .07 time and about 70oz torque. The .06 - .07 transit range is what you want. Makes the plane snap great, and locks great on with the elevator. Congrats to Michael on his win at Com Air....he's got something I don't..I never won a district champ in any class...

Arch

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

JPB111,
I can attest to Arch and the Jon lowe set up. Started running it this year ,our second year, and and made a whole season with 0 problems! Google Jon Lowe cookbook and you,ll get all the info. No starter! get it started the 1st flight and after that its a back flip and your on the way. O flame outs all season!!! and good power cheap!!!
RC11

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Arch,
Did some checking and that servo is the 8417. Dave Lockhart runs it on on ele.
Dave's set up.
9411sa A
8417 E
8411sa R
3421sa T
Per Mike you can save some bucks on the Thr with a 331
RC11

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
 

Can somebody give a link/info to Jon Low's OS 160 setup. I tried to google it with no big results.

Thanks
Srikar.