RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

JB ... the battery tray is supported by just the sides of the fuse, basically 2 thin rails. When pulling positive Gs, the rails give support, in negative Gs it pulled out. The battery popped out of the tray, ejected the canopy and was dangling outside. That caused the plane to be very nose heavy and then she starts to dive ... I got a lot of elevator but it made no difference.

The Miss Wind 50E looks great but at EU329 she is a lot. The Wind 110 is most tempting but again its EU449 ... its a lot for a small plane but then again, the Angel flew really well. Miss Wind looks great but I think with a bipe and extra drag I need to go with a 16x12 for my 4025-12 for sure! The Wind 110 is tempting, as you put it, just double the packs up. I still have a lot of those Rhinos and FP packs in store. Hmmmm ... choices ... decisions ...

Whatever I get next, if I want to learn to fly F3A, she will be for F3A only, no more nonsense.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

WOW . . I better check mine. I was practicing a lot of negative snaps on the F3A stall turn yesterday. I am not aggressive (mad man) though ;)

Get the Wind 110E . . It is VERY competitive in F3A. Better than some (expensive) 2M planes currently available . . IMO.

Cheers, JB

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

JB ... if you do not snap that hard then it should be ok. I was max throw and full throttle. I think you can put some light glass on the aft of the tray where it meets the former and maybe some balsa tri stock on the front half of the tray, just fore of the UC.

I will look into the Wind 110, problem is I am not an F3A kinda guy. I am only doing it to learn about flying and to help the F3A guys here by being their team manager ... my love is still speed. Nothing beats the thrill of a Q500 for me. :)

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

has anyone actually converted this model to IC yet? If so how did you find the results? And pictures? Also what strengthening did it require?

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Look back on the thread there is lots of information on the IC conversions.

Mike

EDIT: page 6 or look on the SebArt web site.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Hi Carl. Mine's one of them...................
West 50 and Groove throttle-pipe. I followed the "standard" method of cutting a slice out of the motor box, butt-joining it, reinforcing/sealing the box AND closing up all the air-holes into the fuz. Added hardly any weight and works very well.
One of the best ic pairings IMHO, as the West is very good on power, LIGHT, low on vibration and turns a 13x6 APC easily. Others have fitted 4-strokes up to YS 63/ Saito 72 I believe but I can't comment on those.........remember the airframe IS lightly built!
Also look up "Sebart Angel 50 ic conversion" in "Top Tips" on the High Alpha website (Dec 08).

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Carl and Hi Bill

Having seen Bill fly his Angel at our GBRCAA day in May I can vouch for the conversion with the West 50, it was withought doubt the best IC power combination I have seen so far on this airframe, perhaps a Saito 82a may be an equivilant, but Bill's certainly impressed us all at the meeting.

Thanks to Bill again for mentoring us on our NPOD (New Pilots Open Day) day, if any of you guys out there in the UK want to get into aerobatics I recommend you get in contact with the GBRCAA (Great Britain Radio Control Aerobatic Association) and see if you can go to or organise a NPOD it is extreamly worth while, every one learnt a lot from raw beginner to the so called club expert.

Mike

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Hello, here is my conversion. The maiden flight will be today. There was a lot of work to fit all these equipment well on the fuselage, but now they are there :D

I made a box for hatori muffler, no exhaust fumes or other dirt will get into the fuselage where the radios are. It also makes landing gear assembly more robust. Sebart glow conversion kit makes the firewall very robust, so I think there is no need for other strengthening. I mounted YS using rubber nuts like these, I don't know their correct name in English.. [link]http://www.kiinnikekolmio.fi/?Tuotteet&id=75[/link] They soften the vibration caused by the motor a little bit, so the frame won't suffer so much. It can be heard when the motor runs, it runs smoother with them. In front of the wing tube, all wood are protected by finshing resin. Especially it's important on firewall, dirt from the motor will spoil wood parts.

Setup is YS63 with Hatori 640 muffler and 643 header, receiver is JR RD921 2,4GHz with two JR EA101 remote receiver. Receiver is powered by two Hyperion G3 1100mAh 2s batteries with Emcotec micro dual batt regulator/switch. Servos are all Spektrum DS821, gas servo is Futaba S3115 with Sullivan's plastic pushrod. The receiver is surrounded by Emcotec, batteries and the tank, so the remote receivers are very good and important. The fuselage is so small that there is no other suitable places for the main receiver. I had to to a stand for batteries, they didn't have room anywhere else. The receiver, Emcotec and the tank is assemblied with softening foams and I used the including rubber grommets with servos.

I didn't use the EZ links including hardware, they are not reliable. I installed Kavan M2 ball links instead of them. I mounted a spring lock to the canopy, so now it can't get loose in flight.

EDIT: Couple pictures added.



Janne

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Very nice conversion Janne............
You do seem to be carrying extra weight though, IMO. I am using a standard 35Mhz Rx, single NiMh 700Mah battery and minimal equipment, for lightness and simplicity ('cos that's how I think!). My a/c all-up without fuel, is 5.8lbs..........

Thanks for the kind comments Mike!;) It was a great day out.
Bill.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Two pics of the build.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

I don't know the weight, I can't measure it now. I think too that it's a little heavier. But I wanted to make it as reliable as possible. I would rather like to get it back home undamaged in the evenings than crashed due to techical failure... So I put in two batteries and a good quality receiver. One of my planes crashed caused by a receiver failure, I don't want that it happens again.

Edit: I found my scale, the fuselage weighs 2350g, one wing 250g. So the total weight is 2850g with empty tank. Tank is 360cc, so it's a bit over 3000g (6,6lbs/106oz) in flight. It's not very heavy, but it could be a little lighter.


Janne

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Maiden flight is done. 3 flights. I don't know yet how it flies, I couldn't do any maneuvers, because the motor don't run yet as it should. It's quite difficult to get YS to good settings, but I believe that it will manage when we just keep testing.

Ailerons are very powerful, that is what I noticed now in the maiden flight.


Janne

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

I was hoping to use an Irvine 53 engine. 2 stroke. As I have one to hand. One of the later ones with the larger ventury on the carb for extra power.

Thoughts...?

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Carl..........
Irvine 53 should be fine, even on standard muffler. You may have to use a 12x6 rather than a 13x6, just try & see. Best install seems to be with silencer running down centreline, ie engine about 45deg below horizontal, see how it fits best!
Bill.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

One of my DS821 broke today. I don't trust them anymore. It wasn't used a lot, it just stuck. Luckily on the ground. I would need new servos, what do you recommend?

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Hi guys,

I read this thread (all 18 pages of it) with interest. I quickly outgrew the Shark and the BH Stick 4D I got for aerobatic training is not to my liking, so Angel 50E here we come :D Getting interested in pattern flying and the quality of the Sebart models drove me this way as well.

There is a few things though I need to clarify before I order all the hardware.

So far a canopy latch and tail wheel system is on the shopping list together with a 2S3P 2100 Lipo RX pack and a 15 Amp UBEC for added peace of mind.

Here is the most important question: I noticed some of you comment on added weight being a good thing with this plane as long as 3D is not on the road map. As I normally fly helis (planks are a new addiction :D) I have a bunch of 6S 3000 mAh packs that I want to use on this model. Having read the data from the various setups, it looks to me that I won't get much air time on a single pack so I am seriously considering using two packs in parallel for 6000 mAh but with weight penalty. My rough calculations come to around 3.1 Kg or 6.8 pounds AUW. What do you guys think? Someone came close to this but not quite this heavy.

My motor/ESC/prop calculations (500 Kv 1475 W rated Turnigy, 80 Amp speedie and 15X8 E prop) seem to suggest a nearly 2:1 thrust to weight ratio so on paper it looks like that sort of AUW should be ok.

Of course the Lipo placing is also an issue. Would someone be kind enough to measure up between the arrows please and under the right green arrow, from the battery tray to the former above it? I would very much appreciate it. I hope J-P doesn't mind me borrowing that photo.

The other question I have is how much of a PITA is the installation of the rudder cables? There is nothing about it in the manual and no one has mentioned it so far.

Thanks very much in advance.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Jannel ... I used JR 539s and I had no issues, I would say go with the HS5485, they are sweet.

Hati ... the plane flies light so some added weight is no issue. I would just fly with the 6S 3,000 pack. No need for 2P. Most of the times if you set her up right you will only use about 2,70 mAh for a 8 min flight. BUT if you really want to go with a 2P set then the first thing you need to do is to REINFORCE the battery tray, if you execute POSITIVE snaps it will not be too much an issue because the sides of he fuse would be supporting the tray as the positive Gs forcing the batt DOWN onto the tray. With NEGATIVE Gs the tray can pop out causing an assured crash ... don't ask me how I know.

I do suspect that 2 pieces of 6S 3,000 will be getting tight. It may not be worth it.

Prop wise please go with a motor that can turn a 16x10, its better with a bigger prop. Look for some 4260 or 4130 sized motor of about 380KV to 400KV. I would only use the 500KV motor with 5S to turn something about say 15x8 t 15x10.

Those pull-pull wires are a pain if you have average sized hands. my advise is to thread the wires through (use a long still wire with a 'L' bend to hook it out) then start at the servo end and only work to the rudder end. That makes it easier because you have limited space just in front of the air baffle.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Thanks for the input tIANci. I did think about reinforcing it if I go 2P, even though I am nowhere near snaps yet, positive or otherwise. The Scorpion motor calc I used was showing too high an amp draw for a 16x anything prop. Will give Motocalc a go tomorrow. I do have some Eagletree data for the Stick that is much the same power plant but only 2.2 Kg (4.8 pounds) AUW. I am not experienced with working out the power systems yet, many calculators come back with contradictory suggestions so it can be confusing a bit.

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Here they are, Green is 125mm, Orange is 100mm, and Red is 65mm.
The one I have is second hand, I got it from a good pattern freind, and it is my first electric model.
I have also got a Turnigy for power, it is the SK 5065,KV380. I use Rhino 6S 3700 batteries and fly for 8minutes, with the BEC for the radio.
Power wise, it will go vertical rolling out of sight, the only problem was on the first flight, the brand new Turnigy got a loose magnet which stopped the motor, I glued them all with some zap, and now have about 20 flights with no problems. I was told to run some zap around the magnets before running the turnigy, but I knew better. Would I buy another ? Yes, the price is hard to beat, and if the re-glue works, no problem. The Angle 50 is a great first Pattern model, this is now my practice/ back up model. Matt

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Great choice . . this is a nice flying plane . . still flying mine :)

HUH? . . a 2S3P 2100 LiPo for the receiver . . is this a misprint? You can run a BEC straight off the main pack, however I used a seperate Rx pack . . a 500 mAh 2S1P ! . . I have digital servos in mine and it uses approx 25mA per flight. I could get 10 flights out of the 500 mAh pack safely.

The Angel can carry a bit of weight but flies best at around 2.5 to 2.7kg in my opinion. If your packs are any good, I would try a single 6S 3000 mAh pack first and set your timer for 5 minutes and check what you put back in. My guess is you should be able to fly for 8 minutes and only use about 2000mAh flying Pattern stuff with throttle management.

Sounds OK . . Certainly wouldn't want any more prop than that. Could even try a 14 x 8 or 10 at that Kv. I am running 486Kv on 5S with a 15 x 8 E. With 6S it would be VERY lively ;)

I could look at it in the next couple of nights (if someone doesn't answer sooner)

I used a piece of small diameter carbon tube, and pushed it up against the exit slot in the fuse from the inside, then fed the wire through the slots from the outside and into the Carbon Tube and just kept feeding it in . . It was so easy, I wanted to do more :D

Good luck with it . .

Cheers, JB

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Hi Matt . . is that Tracey's camera work ?? . . looks like she caught you at the bottom of your One Rolling Outside Loop from the Top ??? :D

Cheers, JB

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Hati ... listen to Matt if you have not purchased the motor, 500KV is pretty high for 6S.

Matt ... I am now flying the Ms Wind, if you love the Angel then you will be blown away by the Ms Wind. Heheheheehee ... imagine landing at a about 10-15 mph without having to go on a high alpha. :)

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Tianci . . you make me JEALOUS with that Miss WIND . . [:o] What is your opinion of it's flying characteristics? is it NICE :)

Yes, 500Kv is really too high, it's almost too high for 5S. I thought you already had this motor. If not, something around the low 400's would be better, otherwise the same as Matt's (380Kv) but you will need to run a 16" prop. I think it currently has a 16 x 10E on it ??? . . and may have even had a 17" on it at some stage (from memory).

Cheers, JB

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

JB ... I have only had 3 short flights so far. Motor is not the best as I messed up my Hyperion 4025 so I had to buy a DualSky 4260-6 (566 KV) turning a 15x8 on 5S whilst I get the Hyperion rewound (don't ask what happened, it was so stupid). The Ms Wind was rushed for the maiden as my friend from Singapore came up. He flies F3A a lot. I have not gotten the plane set up properly but the first impressions are as follows:

- she is very stable (you feel this more than the Angel)
- you feel a lot of drag, when you throttle off she slows down pretty fast
- the plane penetrates very well (must be the thin wings with the swept back leading edge)
- despite the drag she does not need to fly with a high AOA when you go slow (I assume the wings generate good lift, she does not fly floaty like the 3D planes)
- take off is easy and landings can be as slow as about 15 mph (you need not pull the elevator and hit the throttle in a semi harrier)
- rolls are very crisp, you do not see her 'over rolling'
- KE is superb, hardly any coupling (the CG has not been fully sorted out yet, its like the Angel)
- stall turns are very smart (the rudder has a lot of authority)
- she will pull nice big loops and track straight through it
- snaps are very clean, when you release the sticks she stops, no wagging of the tail
- downlines are much slower than the Angel (not braking used on ESC)

I need to set her up properly by checking the throws and then making sure that all 3 surfaces are in the right ratio. Also need to sort out lateral balance and also the CG to find the sweet spot. Moreover, my JR 9X is a pain to use for bipes. I have not got the mixes right yet. At present, I cannot get all 4 ailerons to work for trims. If I trim I get for example, TOP Port side and LOWER Starboard side to work only and not TOP & BOTTOM on either side at once.

The Angel is very nice but in comparison, I will say that when you fly the Angel you are trying to ensure she does not get away (not that the Angel is hard to control), its like the Angel tends to be a little 'too fast'. The Ms Wind is a plane that you need to throttle up to get her moving. This for me feels better as I am more in control of her. The Angel will fly F3A and freestyle with ease. So far with the Ms Wind I don't even want to try freestyle flying, she seems to be nicer flying F3A.

My friend put the Ms Wind through its paces and did fly some F11 on her. She was happy to execute the figure M from F11. Try one ... you will be blown away. What say you? :)

RE: Angel S EVO Build Thread
 

Thank you very much Matt and Jeff.

The 2S3P is no misprint, check it out [link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8272&Product_Name=ZIPPY_ Flightmax_2100mAh_2S3P_Receiver_Pack_]here[/link]. At 97 g all up it should last all day even with digital servos. Speaking of that I think I'll go with the Ino-Lab used by Jeff, although I wasn't too fussed going digital, it's not a flybarless heli for the servo speed to make a difference, especially not in my hands.

Regarding the 2P option, I don't really want to spring for some new batteries just yet, so I guess will have to put up with the 3000 packs and shorter flight times for now, although from Matt's measurements it looks like I could squeeze in the 2P setup, just.

Jeff, you said on my initial setup (500 Kv 1475 W rated Turnigy, 80 Amp speedie and 15X8 E prop) that it could be OK with a smaller prop of 14x something. The reason I picked this particular motor is the 140 g weight advantage compared to the one Matt is using (320 g v. 460g). I am thoroughly confused now with motor/prop workout, my understanding was that if you use higher kv from recommended (500 over 380 in this case) I would gain nearly 3000 rpm using the same 6S pack, so my simple way to solve that would be to reduce throttle. I have an X9303 so I could limit the throttle curve. Of course that would mean reduction in torque. This is the point when I fall over and hope that you guys will turn the light on in my head :D. Ultimately I will go with what you guys think will be best, just wanted to clear this 500 kv issue up first, since it wasn't rejected outright yet. Sorry to be such a PITA.

Just for the record, I have not ordered any hardware yet, I have to wait for the Angel to show up at my LHS (Perth RC), unless you guys know of a shop around the country with an Angel 50 in stock and reasonable postage charges.
I just like to do the homework first, hence I am here and getting on your collective nerves ;).

Edit: I forgot to mention that we get a fair bit of mild to moderate windy weather. My current experience on a 2.5 Kg 40 size Stick is that these winds effect the precision noticeably. I was thinking that by having the Angel just over 3Kg might make it more stable in those conditions. I don't want to overload it though if you guys think that this sort of weight will adversely effect flight precision.