Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

I used to be into pattern flying in the early '80's when I was 16 years old. It was fun and I even went to a few contests. Never won anything, but it was fun. I have one of the old Dirty Birdies hanging in the den.

I'd like to get a modern F3A pattern plane. I won't compete, they're just good flying sport planes that look fast standing still. I have no idea what to get. I've poked around a few sites, Central Hobbies, etc. It seems Precision Aero Composites is just a retailer now.

Can anyone make some recommendations. I want an estetically pleasing 2 meter plane. No retracts any more? I realize they add weight but they're fun as well. I still like seeing the gear go up.

Can anyone recommend some planes and websites. One without as well as with retracts would be nice. Thanks.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

http://ne-aero.com/2maquilaf3aarfarc.aspx

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

www.znline.com
www.camodel.com.ar (www.netboxhobby.com is the US dealer)
www.oxai-rc.com
www.piedmontmodels.com
www.composite-arf.com
www.chiefaircraft.com (xtreme composites PROLINE)

You have a wide range of models and prices.

From CA Models (argentinian factory, excelent airplanes designed by Top pilots like Chip Hyde and Christoph Pysant Le-Roux, 4 times F3A WC) you have the Genesis, Osmose, Pastport and Scandalous (biplane). You can get them in kit, arc and arf.

Piedmont: Focus II very good entry level plane standard wood construction.

Oxai: Amazing planes but $ 3K+ airframe only, only Arf

ZN Line: French factory, top quality airframes (don´t know if there ia a US dealer)

Retracts, most pilots uses fixed landing gear, don´t know if you can get an airplane to install retracts.

I´m actually flying a CA Models electric Genesis, excelent airplane.
All airplanes in the list are very good airplanes and their flying caracteristics are similar, you will get a lot of opinions, some people like one more than the others.
My opinion is that you go for the one you like.

Hope this helps

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

I'm toying around with building a Black Magic

http://www.customairframes.com/

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Look at the Focus II not a bad price

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

FLAPSDOWN,

If your not looking to break the bank on one yet the SWORD 140 might be worth taking a look at.

http://www.texasrcplanes.com/sword140.html

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

If you are interested in a Temptation, I have a NIB Deluxe Kit I'm willing to part with...

Here are some pics of a finished Temptation:

http://www.nsrcad4.com/2006_contest_...SC01606_10.jpg

http://www.nsrca.org/galery/images/BobKane2.jpg

E-mail me off-line if your interested.

Larry Diamond
[email protected]

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

So am I!

LOL

Just teasing. I haven't built myself a plane in over 2 years now....that's about to change in spades.

-Mike

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Best deal is the Genesis ARF $ 1,420.06. Includes: CF Landig gear, CF Wing tube, CF Stab Tube, CF Spinner, Chip hide Aluminium Control Horn, full set of bags (Fuse,stab and Wings) Transportation wood Crate.
http://www.netboxhobby.com/product.s...8&productId=15

Also the Genesis W.C. with the remubable SFG (Side Force Generator)
http://www.netboxhobby.com/product.s...8&productId=25

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

I will quote MTK here, "Guys flying in the lower classes always try to emulate what the top dawgs are doing and that's an expensive shame. Their costs skyrocket due to lack of experience in buying stuff they don't need. They wind up learning the hard way...we all learned that lesson. Many simply drop out on cost alone"

So how about some pattern plane recommendations for the rest of us. 1400-2000 for an airframe. Nope.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

you can't go wrong with this one.

http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2445

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

I'd beg to differ. My first (and definitely last) Oxai product has been nothing but a PITA. I could have rolled my $3K+ on a spin of the roulette wheel, lost, and at least walked away from the mistake. Now that mistake sits in my hanger until I can justify the financial hit to give it away after I've extracted my pound of flesh out of it.

I'm sure there's lower risk alternatives out there, and depending on your re-entry point some of the older (early 2000) designs draw nice lines and really carve through the sky. Later designs tend to be a bit "floaty" but they need to be to get around some of the integrated rolling elements.

Cheers
Brett

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Which oxai did you get Brett?

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

PM sent

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

I totally agree with that quote. I have got caught up numerous times worrying about fine details that an experience pilot should be worrying about. In the lower classes, it's about getting an airplane and flying the sequence. Practice. That's it. These two planes will fly the lower classes as well as you can:

Electric: Sebart Wind 110 is an awesome plane for someone in the lower classes. $600, goes together in a day, very good quality, and flies great. Slightly limited on power options, but Hacker, Scorpion, and Neu all offer a motor that will directly fit. Whatever the plane is lacking, those of us in the lower classes could probably hardly even tell. Fit it together, strap in the power system, and have a contest winning plane ready to go. http://www.f3aunlimited.com/sebartwind110.html


Glow: Great Planes Venus II is relatively CHEAP as you can get it with Tower discounts for $260 or less. If you are flying Sportsman or Intermediate, this plane can handle every maneuver gracefully. Flies great on an OS 120AX or a YS 1.10, and flies pretty good on other 1.20ish four strokes. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...p?&I=LXLHV1&P=


I had the Venus II first and really loved it, and kind of miss it! A very plane built very solid to handle the bumps and bruises a newer pilot will experience. Typical Great Planes assembly, takes a few days to do right. Not setup for electric conversion, which is why I sold mine and went with the SebArt. Venus really tracks very straight, especially after a few trim flights and some minor adjustments. Can do a nice slower roll, flies nice inverted, and easily makes nice round loops.

SebArt Wind 110 is a little more 'sporty feeling' - more responsive, slightly less forgiving, but still an easy and great plane to fly.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Air Borne Models
Zen 90 (Blue) A101B
64.5 inch Wing
$440.00 List
Pre installed retracts

Zen 120 (Blue) A120B
71.0 inch Wing
$400.00 List
From the specs, I don't believe the 120 has factory retracts,
says 5 channel, 6 servos, and I know from personal experiance that they like to put 2 servos on each half of the elevator.

www.airborne-models.com

These are the only pattern ships that I know of with factory retracts.
Teddy

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

If your like me and on a limited budget, the pattern plane I chose was the Phoenix Models SeaBee with a Magnum 52 4 stroke. This combination works great with the sportsman class routines, and is a great, low cost, entry level plane to use in getting into Pattern flying. This plane goes together fairly quickly and can be found at for $109.00 at the following site: and if you keep your eyes open, you can find a 52 magnum 4 stroke fairly inexpensively.

But thats just my $0.02 cents worth...............

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Piedmont Model's : Focus Sport. Original price for the ARF version, $300.00, plus $50.00 shipping.
Right now, Piedmont is selling off what they have left, Focus Sport ARC's, $200.00, plus shipping. As far as I know, they have a few Focus II's left, $500.00 range. I was able to get a set of wing's, stab, elevator, rudder and fin, all finished, covered, and a painted cowl, in addition to the complete ARC kit.

Crank

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Thanks to all of you for your replies. It's been a long time since I looked at this thread. To be honest, I sort of gave up my search and built a Super Kaos to knock around. I recently received a PM about my search for a modern F3A pattern plane, so it rekiddled my interest.

My difficulties stem from two things. I don't like the looks of most designs. They seem stubby, not sleak and streamlined like a Tiporare, Curare, or Dirty Birdy. They also rarely have retracts. Money isn't the issue at all, this is an expensive hobby.

I'm continuing my search. I need a break away from scale warbirds and something a little more high tech than a Kaos. I stumbled across the picture below of an Australian design, the Slingshot. It's long, sleak, and even has retracts! I can see why that guy is smiling. It's exactly what I'm looking for and....they're not made any more and the happy fellow hasn't logged into RC Universe since 2010. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap either but probably cheaper than shipping from Australia. I'd still buy one though.

Also is a picture of what I'm exactly not looking for. I'm sure a beautiful flyer far exceeding my capabilities. Also, short, fat, stubby and landing gear simliar to those strapped to an IMAC plane. If I was looking for an IMAC plane, I wouldn't have retired my Extra300. The search continues.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Flapsdown,

The last photo doesn't do the Osiris justice, I will agree. Here is a photo of mine that shows it in flight, from a more complimentary angle.;)

It is one of the best flying 62-inch wingspan models out there, and there is a 2-meter version somewhere in the pipeline.

Do you want to fly older-style SPA pattern or current F3A style? Your original post said you wanted something modern, but you're not going to be able to fly the more advanced sequences with a Dirty Birdy or a Slingshot.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

If you are looking for a modern airplane with retracts, you may take a look at the thread of the new Bryan Hebert design for 2012 pattern, It's called Alferma and it looks really good.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

To be honest, I am not a big fan of the newer pattern airplanes either. When I was a teen pattern was the elite breed and everyone built their own airplanes and did it incredibly well. I can relate to the OP's perspective here. The Osiris pictured here is a great example and I'm sorry for putting you on the spot but yours is exactly the same as the one the OP posted. He and I are from a generation where pattern airplanes were built by the competitors. They were works of art. I too wanted to get back into pattern but because I have been flying IMAC for 13 years, I prefer a scale like airplane. My solution was to build a 2M Laser 200.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

The OP creates a bit of a dilemma when he says he wants to get "a modern F3A pattern plane" and then says that he doesn't like any modern F3A pattern planes.

I don't know what to do with that.

I'll leave it with you guys.:eek:

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

In a 11lb and 2m max package, a pattern plane flies really well the sequence in the hand of a capable pilot. If you can find a IMAC like plane to serve the purpose, it will be great.

But I like to mention that the current pattern designs are very well optimized. There are reasons that they look like now.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Hi,

If you are looking for a plane that flys like an older pattern plane, you may want to take a look at the Kaos .40 to .46 at Towers Hobbies $134.97. The new .46 engines are close to the old .60's.

Hope this helps.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Here's a little backgound driving for what I'm searching for in a more "modern" pattern plane.

I started flying in 1974 when I was 8 years old. My Dad started in the 50's and flew reeds for years before opening his own Hobby Shop. The shop was more of a hobby than anything, he was a chemical engineer by day.

I started flying pattern when I was 13 and was competitive at 16. I became bored with it and started building warplanes. In other words, I have a fair amount of experience. My current pattern project is a Phoenix 6 from my own plans. Yep, I wanted a Phoenix 6 so bad and I couldn't find one on eBay. I decided to draw my own plans using a friend's fuse as reference and cores from Eureka.

I'm looking for a 2 meter pattern plane that looks nice with retracts. It's a fancy sport plane for me as I have no desire to spend my weekends at contests. I realize designs have evolved for a reason, aerodynamics and competition. I must be too old school to get turned on by the most current designs. Something more like the Slingshot pictures I posted earlier.

Thanks.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Thanks Rene69. I appreciate your reply. I checked out Bryan Hebert's web site. The Alferma isn't quite what I'm looking for. I'm not really interested in a biplane. It did lead me to the Patriot though. Nice lines and retracts too.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Speedracerntrixie,

Thanks for the support. I'm old school enough to appreciate the individuality of finishing a pattern plane. I was always wowed as a kid by the finish competition during our annual trip to Toledo. Remember the guys that put mirrors under their plane so you could see the bottom as well? It was like a car show. Pimp my Pattern Plane.

But I also appreciate arfs. My Dad hated them but he was too old to appreciate what they would do for our hobby. There's a lot more participants with them than without.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Bill, I agree 100%. We are now at a time where we can have much higher numbers then ever flying. I don't care for ARFs but I know lots of guys wouldn't be flying without them. But back to the good "ole days. When I was finally able to afford a pattern airplane, it was a Midwest Mach1 with Kraft Radio, retracts, Webra Speed .61 with pipe. It took me a week to build the airplane and another 2 months to paint it LOL. All K&B Superpoxy. I have a 5 port Rossi 61 FIRE and have been contemplating building a classic pattern airplane. Have you jumped over to that forum and seen how many events are popping up for classic pattern?

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Hi FLAPSDOWN,

I misunderstood what you were after, and I'm sorry and this was my mistake. My reply was not intended to insult, nor offend you, but was a sincere effort to help.

I hope you find what you are after.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Hi Speed,

I'm on the classic pattern forum daily. I'm thinking about doing a build thread on my Phoenix 6. I'm just concerned that if it doesn't look exactly like it should, I'll scrap it. I wasn't able to find one and my buddy wasn't going to part with his. I like the P6 best of the entire Phoenix series.

I jumped over to this forum just to get some tips on an F3A pattern plane. I really liked the Slingshot, it's exactly what I'm looking for.

And, oh the good old days. I remember cutting off the cover of MAN and taping it to my wall with Yoshioka's Blue Angel on it. I flew Dirty Birdys with Rhom retracts and still have my Kraft series '74 radio with stainless steel open gimbals. I'd like to have it converted but am afraid to tamper with it. And K&B was what everyone used.

Good to hear from you but we'd better cut off this classic discussion. We'll be ostacized for being old school.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Bill,
You're an experienced modeler who likes to build. I present to you, my mostesteriestist favoritist 2M sleek looking good flying modern but still classic retractable beautiful precision aerobatics plane ever! It is Gator R/C's Typhoon 2+2. The plans are available and if you like it, I happen to have a set myself and can help you get the plans as well.

http://www.partyofsix.us/images/Typhoon.jpg

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Wow! Scott, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks so much for the reply.

I checked out Gator RC and it seems they're no longer in business. I saw something about Piedmont Models offering the Typhoon but I couldn't find a web site with information on the Typhoon. Remember, I've been flying scale planes for 25 years. I've been pretty far removed from pattern so I'm not well versed on suppliers and equipment.

I'm really interested in getting a set of plans. It's perfect. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Please share some details on yours. You know, engine, pipe, retracts, etc. I'm a big OS fan and like the looks of the 1.40. You see where I am at this stage. I'm trying to get up to speed and my uneducated decisions are based on looks. Oh well.

Thanks again, you have a great looking plane.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

The plans are on RCU at:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10904766

The pipe tunnel might be a little tight for the OS 140 but I'm sure it can be modified to work with a 2-stroke pipe. Usually setup with YS 4-strokes.

John

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Bill,
   John is exactly right on the plans.  Mine is hanging on the wall as a set of plans right now.  I was planning to put either a YS 1.20 in it or possibly the 1.40.  I agree with John on the tunnel but you could probably make it work.  I'll never forget seeing Ivan C. with this plane in Phoenix the first time.  Just wow.  I have been contacted by a gentleman to build  one for me but time has been tight lately and I haven't had the opportunity to get done what I need to in order to get this done.  I bought the plans from that thread for like $8.00 in PDF and printed them on a giant plotter I have here at work.

Scott<br type="_moz"/>

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Reactivation of these old threads can get quite annoying.  Not looking at the dates I tried the links in the first 10 or so posts and not one worked right.  Is pattern so quirky that companies get in and out within a year.  I know that was true of the Global Avance but I thought that was just a fluke.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Thanks guys. I'm psyched and will stop at Kinko's on the way home tonight to have the PDF's printed. I really appreciate the help. By the way, I actually have a YS 1.40 I picked on eBay years ago. I watched it and made a game time decision to buy. I'm sure I had a future use in mind but only remember getting a good price for an unused engine.

What's interesting is I consider my Dirty Birdy and UFO classics and here the Typhoon from 1999 is now considered a classic. See how building scale planes can get you out of touch and corrupt your mind.

Sorry Scott, I assumed the picture was your plane. Let's get started and build them together. It'll help if two of us are sourcing materials and hardware at the same time.:) I'm sure my wife will be thrilled I'm starting another project.

Bill

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Bill, what'd be great is if you would be kind enough to do a build thread with pix here! What a treat for all those interested. I don't know if you'd stick it in classic pattern or not.

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

Wow Wayne, I'm with you. The OP must have had a real hair up his - to come at you like that. So underserved!

RE: Pattern Plane Recommendation
 

" Wow Wayne, I'm with you. The OP must have had a real hair up his - to come at you like that. So underserved!"

[/quote]

By chance maybe hedidn't see that replyyet. No need to bring up unsightly hair follicles.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...bananahead.gif http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...bananahead.gif