RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

88 grams each?? That's heavier than I thought. That's the weight of both legs on my set

Hmmmm!! Been down that road once before and I found it too time consuming especially for the money these could command. BUT, I am open to someone else taking the concepts and commercializing them. There are several ideas involved. I have not spoken with Graph Tech. I did speak with one guy who showed real interest in doing a commercial campaign but he turned out to be a flake. Took my ideas and just sat on them. So as you can imagine, I am a bit leary about who to let in from now on

Rather than butcher this thread with the new thread, I will start another soon and show you guys how I did it. Stay tuned

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

What do the Graphtech gear weigh? Not on their website... that's curios?

RC

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

I think Bob Moulder is getting the F3A set. He will let us know. I personally don't know

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

I picked up the landing gear & wheel pants set from Matt today. Very nice! This set will be going on my new Xigris C1. I must say, I was pleasantly surprised by the weight of the landing gear & wheel pants that came with the Xigris, but using's Matt's gear will save me probably about 2 oz overall. Only about 3/4 oz of that savings is in the gear & pants. The remaining savings will be from using Matt's system to secure the landing gear legs, which also does a better job of distributing loads to the fuselage. I'll post some pictures to Matt's new thread, but I have not made any progress on the Xigris yet. It will be a while. OTOH, Matt has his all mounted in his new 2M design. I would really like to see someone pick this up and manufacture it. It's the best system I've seen to date.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Thanks Ed,

Guys before I get inundated with requests to make gear, please, I am not going down this path. If I do anything at all, it will be for my immediate flying buds up here in NE.

Ed was kind enough to show me his Xigris fuse and in that fuse, the set up will be simple and practically self aligning. It was more difficult to do in my new design since I had to move the gear mounts into the enclosed pipe tunnel. Fishings for stuff is always more difficult. Xigris gives simple access from the top.

BTW, the Xigris fuse is extremely nicely done. And very light. The finished plane should be around 9 3/4 lbs with the SAP 180 up front. I want one of these. Not the whole plane, just the fuse. I prefer my own flying feathers and force arrangements

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

On order, but Graphtech is reducing the width at the top in order to fit the Focus, so it will be a little while. Graphtech model #270.

I will keep an eye out for the thread about your new LG.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Igniton module

The ignition module won't fit on the firewall, so it will have to go inside the fuse of the Focus.

Will it need some sort of airflow over it to keep it cool? If so, I will need to make a duct and air outlet of some sort.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Bob,

You really shouldnt need any special cooling for the ignition module. It certainly shouldnt get that hot. My YS CDI unit sits right behind my firewall with no air at all over it.

Arch

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

It won't need any special cooling features. I have built an ignition stimulator (really a simulated engine running) that I use to test things with, and I have run the Syssa ignition and the YS ignition at over 10,000 RPM continuously. They don't even get warm.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Thanks, Arch and Ed, good to know that.

In the photos of Matt's Enigma early in the thread, I noticed that it was under the chin cowl and exposed to airflow, so I thought it might be necessary.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Bob,

I put it there out of convenience. If you put it inside the plane just locate it somewhere convenient. The electronics are potted so vibration won't get to it hardly at all so mounting in foam etc. as wenormally do with other electronic stuff, doesn't much mater.

What is a good idea is to locate the RX as far away from the CDI and ignition wire as you can physically. Also, if you plan on driving the module with a separate battery, keep the battery, switch and wiring away from the RX as far as is practical. If you are using a 2.4 gig radio it won't matter much but if you are using 72 Mhz or other, then these are common precautions for CDI.

If you are using Ed's IBE and a common battery for airborne pack and CDI, keep the wire lead going back to the RX unbunched as possible. This will keep the max distance between the RX and the CDI. Ed may want to add to this.

The 2.4 gig stuff is practically immune to ignition noise.

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Chock full of good info, there, Matt. Thanks.

Getting to the point where I have to start thinking about CG and where to place the electronics. Using the Syssa IBE (similar, same as Tech-Aero?) and the 2 FP 800-mah 2S Lipos with 2 Tech-Aero switch/regs.

Thing is, these items are so lightweight that even with the battery redundancy it will still weigh about the same as my usual set-up with a heavier switch, reg and LiIon (which I thought was pretty light!), which means the placement of the ignition module might be critical for CG. I really loathe the idea of having to end up adding lead to the tail!

Still don't have the Graphtech LG yet, which of course will also figure into this. And I haven't even checked to see how the SAP 180 weight compares to YS 170 etc...

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

SAP 180 is about 2 ozs lighter than the YS170, per Ed who has both

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Throttle arm

Most of the engine stuff that I can do for now is done so I am concentrating on the rest of the Focus II, thus not much on the engine front. Awaiting the IBEC from Syssa - which should arrive in the next couple of days - and the LG and wing tube from Graphtech. Started with the DEPS for the elvator, and after assessing the situation (and unexpected very bad friction in the system) decided to make a kind of hybrid between the Dave Brown and the DEPS. Will be able to finish it tomorrow night, and I'm very happy with the result thus far.

But back to the SAP 180. As usual, I unhooked the little return spring from the Walbro carb and learned that it is one of those carbs that has some sort of secondary return spring. This secondary spring has a little resistance and likely will cause little battery drain, but unless somebody knows how to get rid of it, it will have to stay. Still, it would be nice to do away with the secondary spring entirely.

The stock throttle arm with Walbro carbs is pretty short, and therefore a longer arm is usually desired for more precise control from the servo. The stock (short!) Walbro throttle arm is indexed with flat spots on 2 sides to ensure the position will not change. So, if you add and extension you want to piggyback it onto the stock throttle arm.

I used one of the blue aluminum servo arms that come with Hitec hi-torque servos. If the Hitec servo arm is lined up with the stock Walbro throttle arm, it will bump into the crankcase of the SAP 180, so it must be offset a little to avoid the crankcase. Drilled a hole in the Hitec arm to line up with the Walbro arm, found a tiny bolt and nut from my hardware stash, then secured it with Red Loctite and cut off the excess bolt. Also, because I am using the soft mount, I wanted the ball link on the inside of the servo arm (on the carb side) so that the throttle linkage would have a little clearance with the soft mount rings.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Looks good. I am not sure if I discussed this before...I had to add a lateral extension to the throttle arm on mine in the test bed so that the push rod could clear the mount on the firewall. I'll have to take snap and post it.

I left the spring on in my set up. The amount of current draw at full throttle with servo fighting the spring is very low, but, I suppose, why have the current drain at all

I hear you about doing other things....that's where I am at too. Just finished the prop and some sanding on my new plane. I can see the finish line on the model, 3 years in the making.

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Looking forward to the debut of your masterpiece! In fact, I would love to come down and visit your field when you maiden, maybe with Anthony although I haven't even mentioned it to him yet.

I am back on a regular work schedule, so I am like a regular guy now, getting a couple hours' work done each evening. I didn't realize that I didn't have a spare HS-225 in the parts stash for the throttle, nor a micro HS-81MG for the choke, so I had to order them. Battery died on the DeWalt drill also, so I found a source for aftermarket ones on Amazon. Lots of things to slow us down, although I realize that it is going at lightning speed compared to some projects!

A I mentioned before, using the HS-5955's for the elevator and rudder, which are massive overkill for torque and weigh more than the typical pattern servo for these applications. But I'm assuming (there I go again) that as long as the load is small the current draw is also small, so no extra drain on the battery(??).

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Please do not get rid of the carb return spring. It keeps some tension on the butterfly shaft assembly so that it does not vibrate and wear out. The amount of current draw is tiny.

If you use the same dimension servo arm (center to center) you do not have to change anything on the throttle arm to get very good resolution. Hope this helps!

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Todd, I left the spring on, just unhooked it.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Sorry, that is what I meant...
Please do not unhook it.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Ah, okay!

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

no sweat!

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Today I received in the mail the Syssa CF spinner and it, like the engine, is an absolute gem. I don't know if Syssa makes these things, but to whomever does, BIG kudos.

The 3-inch spinner and backplate weigh 1.4 oz and are designed like regular Tru-Turn spinners that use a bolt through the nose, not like the pesky ones that use 6 little bolts around the base. Already has a Menz-type cut that will fit almost any prop, and includes the adapter nut for the prop shaft. $38 bucks well spent - SUPER!:D

Also in the package was the Syssa (Tech-Aero) IBEC and it looks solid and is lightweight like the Tech-Aero switch/regs.

Got another package from Tower with the choke servo, 12-oz tank (Dubro w/gas stopper) and throttle servo, so I can get some more done. Graphtech LG and wing tube enroute!

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Does anyone know if the pipe and header for a Mintor 170 will work for the Syssa? Just throwing this out as an idea.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Any pics or info on the IBEC?

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

There is more [link=http://www.syssaaircraft.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=35&idcategory=11]technical info[/link] on the IBEC on the Syssa website, and also Todd Syssa mentioned some of the capabilities earlier in this thread, a few pages back.

Weight on my postal scale is 0.7 oz. I hope to get a better scale soon with higher resolution (1 gram), but this is pretty good.