RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

I just knew there was a cool nickname for it.[8D]

I weighed all the items that are done and the stuff left over, and added a few ounces for hardware, fuel line, etc., and the total looks to be about 10lb 12oz, hopefully a bit less.

So the SAP 180 on a pipe can definitely make weight. I'll bet yours weighs closer to 10 lbs flat.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Guys, on my MVVS i had a similar problem with the walbro choke flap giving me the irrits.

I ended up stealing a ball detent choke of a weed eater, and fitted that (the hole for the ball detent is in every walbro) so you flick the lever to choke, flip it till it kicks, and flip it back, voila!

hope that helps a little.

here's a pick for reference.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Good idea!!

This is what I had
Just a piece of standard blue and yellow nyrod

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Removed the outer blue nyrod sheath and substituted a short length of yellow pvc fuel line

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

And now for hands off choke full closed......had to grind the yellow nyrod a little to make it fit nice and snug but movable. Sorry for feeding the photos one at a time, these are very high resolution and the files are several MB

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Matt, is that a subfin behind the engine?

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Yes it is
I am not ready to discuss the effect
MattK

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Nice accomplishment Bob! There have been a lot of Focus II's that didn't make weight with 2C glow. Can't wait to see it flying. We're not that far away, maybe you, Matt and I can get together when the weather improves.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Thanks! I will have the final number in a couple of days. Got my fingers crossed that it won't take heroic measures to achieve CG.

I got to thinking about it, and had I used stock items at every step I would have been over 11 lbs, no question. Saved a lot of weight on the pipe tunnel and the MK control horns/clevises vs the stock control horns (bolts); the lightweight Tech-Aero electronics (big thumbs up, there![sm=thumbup.gif]) and eliminating the ignition battery; CF wing tube and landing gear. The soft mount for the engine weighs more than hard mounting, but not that much more - perhaps 2 oz.

Yes, if we have a nice weekend somewhere on the horizon, I'll bet it wouldn't take much to goad Anthony into joining me for a visit down your way.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Good, glad it worked! With your setup, it is obvious if the choke is open or closed.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Looks like a hatori RTC header for an OS160. Still have two of these on hand and a NIB OS160 that I would love to sell. I probably will never use the OS since we found the Syssa 30 cc. No point!!

On the choke....the SAP 30 cc doesn't have that type of walro carb. The choke baffle fits on the outside of the housing and does not go though/inside the carb venturi as many walbros do. Todd's thinking was that the choke baffle mechanism being completely outside the engine would allow better breathing since the venturi isn't impeded in any way. He is right, of course.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Indeed sir, in that case, it should be very easy (as you've done) to get a working choke lever.

As for the header, it's one of Karl Meuller's.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

BTW...Some one in a different thread has been claiming that the MVVS is superior in output to the SAP. Can you enlighten us as to what the MVVS can do? What the SAP can do I already know. Any other pertinent info such as weight, mounting etc would help

thanks

MattK

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

I'd highly doubt it. The best I got was around 9000 on a 17x10N, so you guys are hauling bigger props at similar speeds.

The mvvs is great, but it does have drawbacks, front induction and side exhaust being the to biggest pains.

As for mounting I modified a MK os 140 rx soft mount to fit the 160, it's a typical beam mounted engine, which makes installations into most aicraft easy. In F3a aircraft it's difficult to use a hyde mount as you're unable to use a nose right because of the hall effect sensor. That said the syssa has the same issue. Have you noticed the engine changing thrust line?

From memory the all up weight of the enigne was around 1.4kg. It worked well in the smaller old style 2m ships, but the newer style aircraft would be an impressive non-event with the power output of the mvvs.

Great motor, just not enough for new f3a though.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Have you noticed the engine changing thrust line?

.
[/quote]

The soft mount is a Hyde type that I custom build to suit my taste. It is firmer than the hyde but provides very good isolation nevertheless. I have not as yet found the lack of nose ring to be an issue but I haven't truly wrung the plane out yet either.

Having said that, the nose ring adapter for the SAP has already been designed and is intended to be a simple retrofit. Todd Syssa has so many other pressing issues right now that we have no chance to get the first prototype done in at least a couple months if I were to hazard a guess. The adapter will be very light, on the order of around 10 grams or so and is sized to accept common nose rings commercially available.

MattK

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

That's great. It seems that Todd really is trying to create a viable, bolt in alternative to glow powered models. The attention to detail is refreshing to see.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

I think that when people actually see the engine live in a serious competition, it will turn heads. Many have expected it to be noisy which it isn't, or expected it to be anemic, which it isn't. It is a fine product and I want to encourage Todd to stay the course.

It's designed with sport flying its main purpose but why not use it for pattern if it works?? Adapting it to pattern needs has been a lot of fun and quite rewarding

MattK

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Great news for those planning to use the SAP 180 with the Focus II: NO problem at all with the CG!!

A little while ago I assembled everything (minus the switch/regs, IBEC, Rx batts - but including the ignition module) and the CG was dead-on at the Rusty Dose-recommended 1/4" in front of the wing tube, with the ignition module located just behind the second former, in front of the wing.

Not many gassers you could accomplish this with!

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Very clean, can't wait for a flight report!

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Nice job Bob,

Just a quick reminder...I couldn't tell from the photo if you used a separate fill line to the tank. It's a very good idea to do that this way you will not lose prime between fill ups unless you run the tank dry.

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

I ran the engine in the back yard today and for the first time I was able to choke it correctly and draw fuel MANUALLY by rocking against compression. Still has the sliding baffle choke of course..... but now, with the snug nyrod in place, I can set full choke and it stays until released.

I got a good feel of how my latest prop mods will work...it's an 18 5/8" x 13. Turning around 7400 steady. Very nice! Can't wait to see what it does in the air. Very steady at several throttle settings for prolonged periods of as long as 1 minute. Accel from idle after 1 minute was instant and smooth. Impressive!!

BTW, The engine is beginning to show signs of break in. It is holding rpm without sagging running the realy big props. Just about 1+ gallon through it. It will be even better at 3 gallons I suspect. The engine was and still is a bit tight. Very good tolerance control which should mean a long life.

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Matt, there is a bit more to do with the plumbing, but I plan to use just the 2 lines. I have assembled and flown a several gassers and have not hat a problem losing prime, usually starting on the first or second flip after the initial choke and first flight of the day. This is also why I will try to do the set-up with a choke rod only. I will use a Hangar 9 fuel dot, with a T, and a filter between the T and the engine. If it becomes a problem (losing prime) I can always install the 3rd line later, but - knock on balsa - it hasn't been an issue before.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Excellent developments all around!

Do you think break-in with an 18x10 PN will be okay?

I will be getting to the cowl soon and installing the choke rod, and I'd like to do it like yours, but since I don't have a chin cowl I will have to figure out a way to anchor the PVC tube piece.

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Bob,

My fuse is 1/8" balsa and it holds fine....which means that if you doubled the fiberglass with 1/8 balsa or lite ply surrounding the hole, it would hold fine. When I remove the engine, I have it set-up such that I unscrew the nyrod to get it out of the way first.

With a cowl, you should be able to fish the nyrod through the opening without removing it. I probably should have done it that way through the chin cowl on mine. The big benefit would have been that the rod would have been vertical rather than angled. Better articulation would have closed the choke more completely from the start

I am not sure whether the 18x10 PN is more or less load than the 18.1x10 std blade. I suspect less load..... should work because it will allow the engine to unwind more which will probably get it broken in quicker. It's a good idea to run the engine at 8K+ for the first several tankfulls

Remember that I ran the 19x10 XOAR woodie laminated with carbon cover and it would turn around 8400 or so. It was noisy as heck but for break in it works great.

Matt

RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
 

Matt,
I don't have a motor yet but I am lining up parts. I have a couple ES pipes to try when I get my motor, I have one for a Webra 160 with a Johnson header. The pipe has a .90 inlet is 2" in diameter and 14" to the baffle and is for a Brio that I have aquired. I see that Ed Scorpa has a pipe specifically for the 30CC Syssa. Is my pipe and header a possibility?
Thanks RC