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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
How was your soft mount without the nose ring? I assume you have the nose ring protoype for the Prestige... Will it work with a stand-alone cowl like the Focus has, or must it be used with a chin-cowl design? |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: cmoulder Ed, glad you got to fire up the new engine and fly! Unfortunately, I was not able to fly the Focus yesterday because of snow cover remaining at Black Dirt. Had to go to work this afternoon, so I was only able to fly a small nitro plane locally this morning. What a waste of nice weather, ugh. How was your soft mount without the nose ring? I assume you are anticipating the Syssa nose ring protoype for the Prestige... Will it work with a stand-alone cowl like the Focus has, or must it be used with a chin-cowl design? I have a Funtana 90 that is cowled in the conventional sense. Power is a YS 120 4 cycle on one of my mounts. As you can imagine, this rig is a shaker, far more so than the SAP. I added a couple extra mounting bolts to the cowl and used the typical nose ring arrangement directly on the cowl. Had about 50 flights on the rig before I decided I needed the equipment for something different (read, much better flying). The cowl is cheap fiberglass but held up with no problems....I reinforced the mounting area with a narrow strip of carbon cloth and epoxy but that was about all I did. BTW, Ed's engine started far easier than mine did at first. Needle adjustments on the muffled engine were very broad, broader than on the piped set-up it seemed Matt |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
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OK, as long as the nose ring will slip over the front of the engine, I can do this.
This is very similar to the nose ring I put in the Focus Sport w/YS110 and it is still holding up well despite my serious doubts that it would last more than a couple of flights. Knowing this, I might just make a ply sandwich nose ring for the SAP-180. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Every time you pull a corner, there is a gyroscopic precession effect that moves the prop disc off line |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
So THAT'S what is going on, and here I was thinking every corner I pulled or pushed on I was wings unlevel.
Thanks for the excuse! :D |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: cmoulder OK, as long as the nose ring will slip over the front of the engine, I can do this. This is very similar to the nose ring I put in the Focus Sport w/YS110 and it is still holding up well despite my serious doubts that it would last more than a couple of flights. Knowing this, I might just make a ply sandwich nose ring for the SAP-180. Exactly. The nose ring will simply be bolted onto the crankcase to separate any outside contact with the hall sensor yet be circular to fit in the nose ring support. I am not sure how strong the fiberglass of the Focus is. Consider epoxying a strip of carbon cloth around the inside lip at the mounting area to the fuse Matt |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: MTK ORIGINAL: cmoulder OK, as long as the nose ring will slip over the front of the engine, I can do this. This is very similar to the nose ring I put in the Focus Sport w/YS110 and it is still holding up well despite my serious doubts that it would last more than a couple of flights. Knowing this, I might just make a ply sandwich nose ring for the SAP-180. Exactly. The nose ring will simply be bolted onto the crankcase to separate any outside contact with the hall sensor yet be circular to fit in the nose ring support. I am not sure how strong the fiberglass of the Focus is. Consider epoxying a strip of carbon cloth around the inside lip at the mounting area to the fuse Matt |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Help/Advice
I am putting my Syssa on a HiFly Giles 202: http://www.hiflymodels.com/product-2...tid1=2&rid=224 Unfortunately, I received a review of the plane instead of instructions. This plane can be set up in many ways including their version of Pattern. In any case, the wing is not set and left to the builder to decide where to put it. They allow up to 2" of movement front to back. I suppose this could be a new adventure in balancing, load it up the way you want and move the wing until it balances on the CG? Obviously, the CG moves with the wing but I have no idea of the pros or cons of a more forward or aft wing? Never had this option before. The reviewer comments where: With the manufacturer's tab-retention system the wing incidence angle is fixed. This is where a few "tuning capability" changes were made. First, the tab retainers were discarded and replaced with Gator RC wing-adjusters. The retention plates were removed from the fuselage and the wing-adjusters fitted in their place. The original wing-incidence positions were marked on the fuselage with a fine felt-tipped "Sharpie" pen. This ink is easily removed later with denatured alcohol. New holes were drilled in the wing root to mate with wing-adjusters and re-establish the original incidence. Secondly, because the wing retention tabs had been replaced, a new method was required to hold the wing in place. The wing-tube-sleeve was glued in place using plywood doughnuts. A small block of hardwood was glued between the wing skin and the top of the wing's tube sleeves. This was positioned about 1/2" from the end of the carbon fiber wing tube. Then the wings were drilled and tapped for 4-40 bolts through the hardwood block and into the wing tubes. A 3/8" wooden dowel was used across the diameter of the tube to provide 4-40 thread support material inside the wing tubes. I have no idea what a Gator-RC wing adjuster is? Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Gary |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: GLRogers Help/Advice I am putting my Syssa on a HiFly Giles 202: http://www.hiflymodels.com/product-2...tid1=2&rid=224 Unfortunately, I received a review of the plane instead of instructions. This plane can be set up in many ways including their version of Pattern. In any case, the wing is not set and left to the builder to decide where to put it. They allow up to 2'' of movement front to back. I suppose this could be a new adventure in balancing, load it up the way you want and move the wing until it balances on the CG? Obviously, the CG moves with the wing but I have no idea of the pros or cons of a more forward or aft wing? Never had this option before. The reviewer comments where: With the manufacturer's tab-retention system the wing incidence angle is fixed. This is where a few ''tuning capability'' changes were made. First, the tab retainers were discarded and replaced with Gator RC wing-adjusters. The retention plates were removed from the fuselage and the wing-adjusters fitted in their place. The original wing-incidence positions were marked on the fuselage with a fine felt-tipped ''Sharpie'' pen. This ink is easily removed later with denatured alcohol. New holes were drilled in the wing root to mate with wing-adjusters and re-establish the original incidence. Secondly, because the wing retention tabs had been replaced, a new method was required to hold the wing in place. The wing-tube-sleeve was glued in place using plywood doughnuts. A small block of hardwood was glued between the wing skin and the top of the wing's tube sleeves. This was positioned about 1/2'' from the end of the carbon fiber wing tube. Then the wings were drilled and tapped for 4-40 bolts through the hardwood block and into the wing tubes. A 3/8'' wooden dowel was used across the diameter of the tube to provide 4-40 thread support material inside the wing tubes. I have no idea what a Gator-RC wing adjuster is? Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Gary You may have gotten into a can of worms. The fore aft wing placement is one thing but the vertical placement is key too. The Giles tends to be very long nosed so moving the wing forward should help, but you must make sure the vertical location of the wing on the fuse side is not altered. On forward placement, go smack in the middle of what they allow you. The SAP180 is fairly light by gasoline standard so you probably should not move the wing full forward. As you said, loosely install the components and see where the thing balances. Gator adjustors: these were devices that allowed small wing incidence adjustments to each panel independently. They are no longer available as far as I know which means you may need to fix the wing incidence with dowl pins MattK |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I have no idea what a Gator-RC wing adjuster is? Any help or advice would be appreciated. In stock, because I bought some recently when one was lost from my Focus Sport. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: cmoulder I have no idea what a Gator-RC wing adjuster is? Any help or advice would be appreciated. In stock, because I bought some recently when one was lost from my Focus Sport. MattK |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
unsubscribe..
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: highfly3D unsubscribe.. Got in a few more flights today. The engine behaved oddly, not making nearly as many rpm's as the previous flights. I think it might have been the fact that the initial tuning was done in very cold weather, and now that the air is warmer and less dense, it was fairly rich. So I began leaning it out some more - a blade width at a time - and it got better and better. Still not the revs it made on those first flights, but getting better. Sticking with the 18x10PN for now. The battery voltage was getting marginal, so I decided not to risk it and packed it in for the day. Crappy weather and work this weekend anyway, so I will continue to sneak up on it one fine day next week. I'm really diggin' the way the full 2-meter flies compared to the Sport version. I'm sure I don't know enough to be very critical of the trim, but it seems pretty damn good as is. Holds the track extremely well when pulling fairly sharp corners on the square loop and sharks tooth, and seems not nearly as sensitive to cross winds. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: cmoulder ORIGINAL: highfly3D unsubscribe.. Got in a few more flights today. The engine behaved oddly, not making nearly as many rpm's as the previous flights. I think it might have been the fact that the initial tuning was done in very cold weather, and now that the air is warmer and less dense, it was fairly rich. So I began leaning it out some more - a blade width at a time - and it got better and better. Still not the revs it made on those first flights, but getting better. Sticking with the 18x10PN for now. The battery voltage was getting marginal, so I decided not to risk it and packed it in for the day. Crappy weather and work this weekend anyway, so I will continue to sneak up on it one fine day next week. I'm really diggin' the way the full 2-meter flies compared to the Sport version. I'm sure I don't know enough to be very critical of the trim, but it seems pretty damn good as is. Holds the track extremely well when pulling fairly sharp corners on the square loop and sharks tooth, and seems not nearly as sensitive to cross winds. Interesting. It shouldn't be that much leaner in the end but a little is expected. The engine will hold a bit leaner setting as it breaks in too. You don't want any sagging on the vertical upline, no matter how extended. That's what I want out of the engine. We are still vertical on the learning curve with this newest powerplant. We will learn a bunch in the months to come. Did you stretch the pipe? My CDI module is not back from Todd yet so I've missed all runs in this warmer spell. Matt |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
MTK
Thanks for the input. The veitcal is pretty much fixed along a hoizontal line to slide the wing forward or aft. I am going to check out the Gator adjusters and will probably set it initially at their half way point. Gary |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Bob, Interesting. It shouldn't be that much leaner in the end but a little is expected. The engine will hold a bit leaner setting as it breaks in too. You don't want any sagging on the vertical upline, no matter how extended. That's what I want out of the engine. We are still vertical on the learning curve with this newest powerplant. We will learn a bunch in the months to come. Did you stretch the pipe? My CDI module is not back from Todd yet so I've missed all runs in this warmer spell. Matt Much warmer air temps than original tuning (approx 10 degF vs 58 degF) and the pipe was a smidge under 27-1/2" plug-to-baffle, which is a little longer than before, and I had the static line on the carb pressure sensor, and finally the oil switch to Amsoil 85:1. Too much to figure out which caused what! But I just wanted to fly, and have the gobs of power I originally experienced. By the last flight today, the verticals were pulling very nicely with no sagging, which is why I just decided to leave it there, content that I am on the right track. I have to struggle keep in check my tendency to rush things, and I was extra-antsy because of the work road trip and the home remodeling. So, the Focus/SAP 180 is coming along nicely and the crocus blooms still are a couple of weeks away!! |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Could you please show/explain to me whatthe "27-1/2" plug-to-baffle" dimension is?
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: ghoffman Could you please show/explain to me what the ''27-1/2'' plug-to-baffle'' dimension is? Matt made it easy for us by measuring straight from the plug to the baffle, so we don't have to take into account the rise of the header nor measure around the curves.:eek: |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Is the "plug" the spark plug?
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: cmoulder So, the Focus/SAP 180 is coming along nicely and the crocus blooms still are a couple of weeks away!! You know, Ed's needle setting was extremely broad this past weekend. We chalked it up to the muffler but maybe it's broader because of warm weather. Maybe Todd can chime in on this. I think you are quite a bit ahead of all of us since this will be your season's model. I have barely started to paint mine and Ed hasn't quite gotten his built yet. A long way off for both of us I think. Ed might consider dropping the SAP in his tried and true Prestige. I 'm not sure how many others are attempting this engine for this Pattern season. We know of a couple at least who post regularly on this thread. We will all learn together...that's what's fun to me Matt |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Matt,
Yeah you guys are helping me for sure. I've not run my engine yet, (maybe this week end) but I got the engine mounted finally. Now I can put the header on and set the pipe in the tunnell, and see how much I have to modify the tunnell. My engine is not soft mounted but I did build a 7/8" thick spacer out of end grained balsa and ply sandwich, for some vibration dampening. Bob, don't ask for pictures ! :) |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Hey guys. In reference to the 27 1/2" dimension. It is NOT from the plug to the baffle in the pipe. I believe it is from the plug to the end of the pipe. ;)
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: Gungadin Hey guys. In reference to the 27 1/2'' dimension. It is NOT from the plug to the baffle in the pipe. I believe it is from the plug to the end of the pipe. ;) Please go back to the previous page and take another look. The first post in that page should answer the questions MattK |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: Gungadin Matt, Yeah you guys are helping me for sure. I've not run my engine yet, (maybe this week end) but I got the engine mounted finally. Now I can put the header on and set the pipe in the tunnell, and see how much I have to modify the tunnell. My engine is not soft mounted but I did build a 7/8'' thick spacer out of end grained balsa and ply sandwich, for some vibration dampening. Bob, don't ask for pictures ! :) Now that you are happy with the engine position, you are at a tricky stage with the exhaust set-up. You can't really determine what will need to be done with the pipe tunnel until the header pipe is adjusted. There is of course a little downthrust in the engine, and you will also notice that the engine exhaust port is angled up (toward the crankcase), and then the engine right thrust. Because of this, the stock header (the Macs for the OS 1.40 RX) is going to have to be bent, using a Bernzomatic torch to heat it up, and using the method described by Matt back around pages 11 or 12. It takes a fair amount of tweaking to get the header exit lined up where you want it in the pipe tunnel. AFter that, you will see that the stock FG pipe tunnel is nowhere near wide, deep or long enough for the ES pipe. But at least with the header pipe where you want it, you will now have the starting point for what needs to be done with the tunnel. Some details from my tunnel mod are on page 12. |
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