Notices
RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros Discussion all about rc radios, transmitters, receivers, servos, etc.

Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Old 07-27-2011, 12:57 PM
  #1  
Greenfuelboy
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I bought an Aurora 9 radio system I set it up as told to by the manufacture. I even called them and ask if my gasoline engine would be ok to use, service said yes over the phone. I was told the problems were a optical kill problem and not the radio system. So I did not use a optical kill switch. My plane failed to respond on the fourth flight and crashed. I had no throttle no rudder no control of any surface. Here is what I read online to day below. I think it is a no Brainer they need to start buying plane's for the people who lost them due to radio failure. If you lost one please let me know. Please be honest and what gasoline engine was used. I would like to know what electronic ignition was used too. And If you used a optical kill switch. I was solid when I flew my nitro plane's. When I flew my new gasoline plane with electronic ignition my plane did not get a full four flights and crashed. I was locked out, brown out what ever you want to called. I do not expect this post to be here long RCU will probably erase it.


From HITEC USA:

Update:

After testing to determine what was causing the reports of lockouts
for some people we strongly believe now that the Optical devices did
NOT play a factor and that it was ignition noise.

We will release a new RX firmware update very shortly that will offer
better rejection against this and a re-boot feature that it is does
get locked out by this it can recover without having to cycle power.

We apologize for this situation but feel that this update should
eliminate the potential for the problem by a very significant amount.

Mike.
Old 07-27-2011, 01:02 PM
  #2  
JIMF14D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: PATCHOGUE, NY
Posts: 954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

You have to be kidding right. Did you do a long range check prior to flight with the engine running?
Old 07-27-2011, 01:05 PM
  #3  
Greenfuelboy
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I am serious I did everything I was supposed to do range checks the whole works I have been flying for years this should not have crashed.
Old 07-27-2011, 01:05 PM
  #4  
fizzwater2
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 2,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

It's a risk we all take in the pursuit of our hobby - that airplanes may not last even ONE whole flight.

I doubt if a radio manufacturer is liable for replacing airplanes. Just too many variables involved.

Old 07-27-2011, 01:21 PM
  #5  
JIMF14D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: PATCHOGUE, NY
Posts: 954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Well get over it and get down to finding out what causes the problem and correct it on your next gasser.

Jim D
Old 07-27-2011, 01:51 PM
  #6  
Greenfuelboy
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Hitec acknowledges that the RF from the gasoline engines electronic engine is a problem for their receiver's it masks the signal causing a lock up. I am just a day late and a dollar short. I have used this system in a glider and have a electric motor I flew it as high as you can see it. I know the radio system is solid with Nitro and some electric but not gasoline.
Old 07-27-2011, 01:57 PM
  #7  
A.T.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs



Aurora 9 - After Market Accessories: Caution re Opti-kill, Duralite, Powerbox, Switches, Leads etc.

Update
"FYI: The RX firmware update V3.01 should be up in the next couple of days. There has been speculation (as there always is) as to the validity of this update and the causes of some of the problems we have seen; All I can say it this is a GOOD THING as it improves the noise rejection capability of the RX as well as includes a re-boot feature if is it affected so at least it has a chance to recover. If other factors are involved then they will be addressed as well as needed.- Mike. "



. It would be all Optima's in which only the 7/9 can be updated by the user.
It is unknown if we will be able the O6's. Future RX's will have the updated firmware from the factory.- Mike.



. No need to remove them (Optima),
just connect to the data connection and your're good to go. While not a necessity, it's not a bad idea to rebind after an update and perform a range check just to be on the safe side.- Mike



Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

Old 07-27-2011, 03:48 PM
  #8  
pdm52956
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Levant, ME
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Let's see.............I've crashed 3 planes and they were ALL due to radio issues. [sm=wink_smile.gif]

I'm thinking that even though I'd LIKE someone to replace them, it ain't gonna happen.
Old 07-27-2011, 03:52 PM
  #9  
rmh
Senior Member
 
rmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: , UT
Posts: 12,630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Should they pay ?
absolutely
fill out a form including car expenses to and from field - add all direct damages and punitive - ($10000 sounds about right)
send promptly to Hitec
This is how America operates - always sue FIRST
Old 07-27-2011, 04:22 PM
  #10  
grizzly59
 
grizzly59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Highland, Indiana
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I think Greenfuelboy asks a fair question. I don't think we need to chalk a loss up to "well that is part of the hobby" I always have said that anything put into production should be thoroughly tested. Companies want to get in there and make a ton of money with something new by beating the competition that they cannot wait and that puts the consummer at risk. If they are ever held accountable they would be sure to test their product rigorously. I personally would be too proud a person to try to make a buck selling a faulty product and not backing it up. But that is me. The question posed does not deserve to be made funny by some of the answers he was given.
Old 07-27-2011, 04:29 PM
  #11  
aussiesteve
Senior Member
 
aussiesteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PerthWA, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Maybe they should also replace the wing bags. (was that thread on here or another forum?).

Seriously, with the information I have about this incident of yours, I would asy they definitley should NOT replace your plane.
What information have I got? - only what you have posted here on this thread.

What radio (tx & rx), what engine, what was the installation like, what batteries, what switches, how was the wiring secured, how many and what servos, what was the previous service history of the components used, how did you perform the ground (range) check?

Whilst I may be known for sometimes being one, I am not trying to be a smart*** this time. The reason for the questions is to help you to work out the true cause and if there is in fact a responsibility on behalf of a component manufacturer or not (The TX and RX are only components of the plane as a whole.).

Was your spark plug cap correctly installed? (how so?).

Even the mighty 2.4g systems (any brand) can cop interference or loss of control from the above. I still stand by the "Initial ground test of a new airframe on FM then change to 2.4" system to give the best chances of solid radio linkage.

I too have had unexplained losees of planes on 2.4 but most of the losses I have experienced have been traced back to human error on my behalf. Poor installation or maintenance usually (never dumb thumbs - it is always the radios fault).
Old 07-27-2011, 04:59 PM
  #12  
pdm52956
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Levant, ME
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs


ORIGINAL: Hoosier06

I think Greenfuelboy asks a fair question. I don't think we need to chalk a loss up to ''well that is part of the hobby'' I always have said that anything put into production should be thoroughly tested. Companies want to get in there and make a ton of money with something new by beating the competition that they cannot wait and that puts the consummer at risk. If they are ever held accountable they would be sure to test their product rigorously. I personally would be too proud a person to try to make a buck selling a faulty product and not backing it up. But that is me. The question posed does not deserve to be made funny by some of the answers he was given.
Well, I'll belly up. My apologies for my reply but honestly, be it a fair question or not, it really isn't feasible to expect a replacement plane IMO.

I know that every time a plane crashes, we all want to put the cause right back at the radio. I did when I crashed my second plane because I would have sworn that all the stories I had heard about Spektrum glitching had gotten me. Flying the pattern after take off, the plane did an uncommanded roll. I knew I didn't make it do that so I decided to land immediately and scope everything out. Turning onto final, the plane did it again and then went belly up, nose down, full throttle and dug a 1/4" hole in the center line of the asphalt runway. Parts for days! As it turned out, it wasn't the radio but the switch instead. It took me a lot of investigation to determing what the cause was but none the less, I would have sworn it was the radio or rx.

Now the OP has a valid point in that Hitec has a problem with the A9 and they have, at least from what little I've read, taken the responsibility to correct it. I'm thinking that the problem with the theory that they should replace the plane is that it would take them a ton of resources to sort out who actually had a plane crash due to that particular issue and who "thinks" they did. Every crash would be a result of whatever problem they, or any other manufacturer, admitted was out there.

Of course you're correct in that products might need more thorough testing in some cases but with the speed that things are developed in this hobby, and the many variables that the user can induce, I'm not sure you could test every conceivable combination which might result in a failure. You might not ever get a product to market attempting that. Would be great if it was different but to a point, the consumer has to take some risk.

Anyway, I think it would be nice if a manufacturer of a radio system would stand behind their equipment and warranty plane and gear installed. That might be a difficult path. I know of some cases where a plane was discounted or replaced but I don't think you'll ever see that for the majority of cases.

Just my thoughts.

Paul
Old 07-27-2011, 06:52 PM
  #13  
grizzly59
 
grizzly59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Highland, Indiana
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Hey Paul, I can agree with all of your comments. I was taught to fly by a tough no nonsense guy who flew full scale planes. Every time I thought I had a glitch or something he said BS pilot error. That is how I attacked the disection of evey crash I had through the learning process. Never did run into a unexplainable crash. Switches, loose connections, poor reading of battery condition, bad servo setup, dumb thumbs etc. I am disturbed lately of the problems that have cropped up with 2.4 systems. At first consumers were blamed and flamed but in time it got proven that receivers were faulty and transmitters had issues. If they grinded it out with some long term testing maybe many consummers could have been spared money wasted. I have switched to 2.4 and have had issues but quit flying at the slightest strange feel about things and grounded the planes until I figured it out. I am worried everytime I fly one of my planes for the first time with the new 2.4 set ups. One by one they are getting up in the air but I am still nervous.
Old 07-27-2011, 08:04 PM
  #14  
Greenfuelboy
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I had every thing in order new HS5645mg Hitec servos, I had new BME 50cc engine with electronic ignition. I used two lipos one 2 cell 4000 mah 40c pack on the SPC and one 2 cell 4000 mah 40c pack on the servos. I had the rep from KMP help me set it up he was flying with me that day. We were going to take some picture's of my KMP T-28 so he could post them online. The plane just flew away by its self on the fourth flight. I can tell I am going to get no where on this forum people think you are a 10 year old kid that has never seen a RC airplane before. I did range checks every thing checked out. I have all the newest radio and receiver updates. I was using the optma 9 receiver. I ran the engine in the plane for two tanks of gas the day before to break the engine in. I got three good flights before the radio locked. I was not flying stupid I was just going in circles, I was flat and level when the plane lost control. I could not get the transmitter to respond I went to my plane after the crash and switched it off and on two times and still nothing. I had to turn the transmitter off and back on to regain control of the servos. I wanted to be certain it was the radio. I was crashed and The plane was a total loss. I just feel like I am screwed out of a plane. My Futaba 9cap has never done anything like this. I had some older single conversion receivers on fm that were not so good but this failure is way worse. I have several other nitro powered planes with optmia 7 and a couple of optima 9 receivers and no trouble. This is a gasoline ignition problem or some thing more. This radio is new and I bought 7 receivers all at the same time. It should have been perfect and had no trouble. I have about 25 to 40 flights on the radio I am just guessing and yes I did read the book it was set up right. I just could not beleive it failed. I figured if this happened to me there must be several other people that it has happened to also.
Old 07-27-2011, 08:05 PM
  #15  
Greenfuelboy
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

The battery's were still at 4.11 volts per cell after the crash. That is almost full charge.
Old 07-27-2011, 08:25 PM
  #16  
4*60
My Feedback: (41)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Shuswap, BC,
Posts: 1,751
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I will just say that Hitec has had few problems with their radios.
First convince JR/Spektrum(DSM, DSM2, DSMX somewhat incompatible with DSM2)...Futaba with overheated receivers, etc.... and then talk about Hitec.
I currently have electronic components that have several bugs in the programming.

Anyway, perhaps a person should test all gear in a "beater" first. The manufacturers cannot test all situations. I get irritated too with bugs, etc. but they absolutely cannot guarantee trouble-free operation. They also cannot open themselves up to that amount of liability.
If this should become the norm start paying 4 times the price for your radio gear or buy it all from China and try to get compensation. That will be your options.

Besides, who is to say that your plug or wiring wasn't the problem. There is no guarantee that the Hitec situation actually caused the problem.

We had a guy with severe interference with 72Mhz who was blaming the radio. Then it was found the ignition battery was in the tail and the wire passed right by the antenna. Whose fault was that?

Your loss is very sad. I don't invest in the type of model you have described because I choose not to lose that much for any reason.
Old 07-27-2011, 09:04 PM
  #17  
Greenfuelboy
Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (60)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Springfield, OR
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I think I am just unhappy with this crash, I have too many planes with out any problems on FM. I get a new system that just does not work. I am just going to sell it when it comes back from inspection and move on. I have all ready purchased another T-28 and it will never have another Hitec radio in it. I can not complain about the servos. The Hitec servos I used were good.
Old 07-27-2011, 10:25 PM
  #18  
Desertlakesflying
My Feedback: (28)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sun Valley, NV
Posts: 2,705
Received 25 Likes on 23 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

There's a reason I still use the long metal antenna radios.
Old 07-28-2011, 12:34 AM
  #19  
pdm52956
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Levant, ME
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs


ORIGINAL: Greenfuelboy

I had every thing in order new HS5645mg Hitec servos, I had new BME 50cc engine with electronic ignition. I used two lipos one 2 cell 4000 mah 40c pack on the SPC and one 2 cell 4000 mah 40c pack on the servos. I had the rep from KMP help me set it up he was flying with me that day. We were going to take some picture's of my KMP T-28 so he could post them online. The plane just flew away by its self on the fourth flight. I can tell I am going to get no where on this forum people think you are a 10 year old kid that has never seen a RC airplane before. I did range checks every thing checked out. I have all the newest radio and receiver updates. I was using the optma 9 receiver. I ran the engine in the plane for two tanks of gas the day before to break the engine in. I got three good flights before the radio locked. I was not flying stupid I was just going in circles, I was flat and level when the plane lost control. I could not get the transmitter to respond I went to my plane after the crash and switched it off and on two times and still nothing. I had to turn the transmitter off and back on to regain control of the servos. I wanted to be certain it was the radio. I was crashed and The plane was a total loss. I just feel like I am screwed out of a plane. My Futaba 9cap has never done anything like this. I had some older single conversion receivers on fm that were not so good but this failure is way worse. I have several other nitro powered planes with optmia 7 and a couple of optima 9 receivers and no trouble. This is a gasoline ignition problem or some thing more. This radio is new and I bought 7 receivers all at the same time. It should have been perfect and had no trouble. I have about 25 to 40 flights on the radio I am just guessing and yes I did read the book it was set up right. I just could not beleive it failed. I figured if this happened to me there must be several other people that it has happened to also.
I feel your pain brother. It hurts to put a bunch of time and money into a new model and see it crash. Been there, done that. A couple things in your post though...........first I hope that you didn't take any response from me as comparing you to a 10 year old that has never seen an RC plane. I certainly didn't intend that. By the way, I've seen some 10 to 15 year olds that are pretty dang good modelers!

I too was "going" in circles when that plane I spoke of decided it knew how to fly better than me.

You said that you switched the plane off and on two time and still nothing after the crash. If the radio issue is due to ignition "noise", wouldn't the ignition have to be "powering" the engine in order to duplicate the problem? Are you positive it was ignition? Yes, it may still have been radio or rx issues, but if it was ignition causing the problem, I just figured the ignition would have to be pumping ignition stuff. Maybe I'm wrong.

It was new and should have been perfect. Nothing is perfect my friend!

It has happened to others. That's the reason that Hitec admitted there was a problem to begin wtih. Someone had to have experienced it.

No one likes loosing a plane and no one likes hearing of someone else loosing one. That's not the reason we do this but it does happen. I'm thinking I should start an insurance business. Kind of like auto insurance. On second thought, maybe not. That's too much like work.

Sorry for the loss.......truely. I hope that they come back with an explaination when they check out your radio and it all ends happily for you.

Paul
Old 07-28-2011, 01:45 AM
  #20  
geneh-RCU
My Feedback: (6)
 
geneh-RCU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Madison Al
Posts: 642
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Sorry to hear about you loosing a nice plane. I have been flying for over 35 years and have seen many planes lost due to radio problems. I have yet to see any planes replaced by the radio manufacturer but I am sure that it has happened. From what I have seen Hitec has been great about taking responsibility for problems and working on a free fix faster than anyone that I have seen. Years ago I had an expensive Proline radio that crashed plane after plane, it was sent back to Proline many times at my cost for labor and shipping and it never was fixed. I just cut my losses and put it in the trash. Hitec is fixing the problems for free and you don't even have to send the radio back most of the time!
Old 07-28-2011, 02:19 AM
  #21  
aero12
Junior Member
 
aero12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Man, I feel your pain too as well...... This same issue happened with me and the new Airtronics Radios....... I lost two brand new airplanes on their SD10G due to complete lock-out....... I can proudly now say that I am flying Futaba, and plan on flying it a looonnnggg time.
Old 07-28-2011, 03:29 AM
  #22  
Zippi
My Feedback: (10)
 
Zippi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 4,972
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I run all Airtronics and lost my Rascal 110 with a G26 due to the wires being to small in diameter on the gimbals. When I contacted The repair center for Airtronics I was ask to send the TX in for new wire harnesses and send the RX and the servos in and it would all be covered if they were damaged. I ask about my plane and was told no one replaces planes. It's not that they didn't want to replace it but it's just the norm to not replace planes these days. The day is coming when they will be held responsible if the TX is found to be faulty.
Old 07-28-2011, 05:03 AM
  #23  
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken
My Feedback: (180)
 
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Somewhere In, NC
Posts: 1,578
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Should Hitec replace your plane due to a lock out? - Why should they? Futaba didn't replace planes when thier receivers overheated and lost signal. JR doesn't replace planes from brown outs (they just tell you that you need the new DSM"X").

Maybe you should ask the manufacturer of the optical kill switch to replace your plane since I'm sure they didn't tell you that their system could cause lock-outs if used with Hitec receivers. [&:]
Old 07-28-2011, 05:33 AM
  #24  
rmh
Senior Member
 
rmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: , UT
Posts: 12,630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

I guess I should no be surprised at the replies which suggested the radio mfgr/supplier/seller is responsible for crashes.
This is a hobby-hobbies are generally done at ones own discretion and risk
Today's "blame game" is a boon to some- assign responsibility for everything
The result?
cars which are throwaway- old cars are prone to suits mainly because laws and regs suggest safety (and safe conduct) should never be left up to the user.
radios - - rebuilding of older units will be outlawed ditto for conversions.
This trend is counterproductive -to hobbiests - for the rest of the "toys are us fliers" - watch movies of flying - it is a safe approach
Old 07-28-2011, 05:43 AM
  #25  
raptureboy
 
raptureboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kempton PA
Posts: 2,620
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Should Hitec replace planes from lock outs

Been there, done that. Sorry for your loss but, if you read any manufacturers warranty the only thing that is covered for defects is the item itself. No company is going to cover incidental damages for loss, because of their product being defective. Their only obligation is replacement or repair of the item itself. All radio manufacturers have had issues with their 2.4 systems. Imo there are none better or worse,I use the Airtronics RDS 8000 and in 2 years I have had no issues, although the antenne attachment point is rather weak. I check the wires on the gimbals from time to time. I set my fail safe for low throttle and a little up elv and left aileron, my thinking is if it goes into failsafe it would allow the plane to circle around a little while it reboots, hopefully[&:]. Vibration is a big issue and it should never be taken for granted that your radio gear will last forever, without having to be replaced at some point. Even though you had all new gear, it's still all made in China and defects abound. [X(]

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.