SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
02-26-2012, 03:29 PM
#51
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
and you didnt have to go to small claims court ?? what the hell is dms2 anyway ?? and what da hell does it do for you ??? my headach is coming back.........
02-26-2012, 03:38 PM
#52
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: BelAirBob
I had a two year old Spektrum DX6i with a broken roller wheel. It was way out of warranty. HH not only replaced the wheel, they replaced the gimbals as something was supposedly wrong with the original parts. HH did not even charge for return postage.
I do a safety report each month for our club newsletter. I have witnessed many crashes, but don;t know of any that were caused by radio malfunction. Most on 2.4 are Spektrum and Futaba and a few on Airtronics, but all the crashes I was there for were due to pilot error, wrong program for the plane, batteries, etc. Heli pilots mainly use Spektrum and would not be doing so if they had no confidence.
I am not saying every radio is perfect, but a lot of us have seen 1000;s of flight on every major brand with no problems. So to say Spektrum, JR, Airtronics, Futaba, etc are junk, just does not make a lot of sense. There are forums in RC Universe bashing each of these brands by individuals which is fine, just don;;t imply that everyone must be having the same problems.
I had a two year old Spektrum DX6i with a broken roller wheel. It was way out of warranty. HH not only replaced the wheel, they replaced the gimbals as something was supposedly wrong with the original parts. HH did not even charge for return postage.
I do a safety report each month for our club newsletter. I have witnessed many crashes, but don;t know of any that were caused by radio malfunction. Most on 2.4 are Spektrum and Futaba and a few on Airtronics, but all the crashes I was there for were due to pilot error, wrong program for the plane, batteries, etc. Heli pilots mainly use Spektrum and would not be doing so if they had no confidence.
I am not saying every radio is perfect, but a lot of us have seen 1000;s of flight on every major brand with no problems. So to say Spektrum, JR, Airtronics, Futaba, etc are junk, just does not make a lot of sense. There are forums in RC Universe bashing each of these brands by individuals which is fine, just don;;t imply that everyone must be having the same problems.
In more than 3000 helicopter flights i have only had 4 crashes.
1 was my own fault for taking risks with autorotations and misjudging the flare height. I accept the blame.
2 was a main shaft screw failed during a pitch oump. . . Metal fatigue. .
3 and 4 were caused by taking off with the WRONG model memory selected in My FUTABA radio..
Futaba has NO protection against this . .
I dont blame the radio for these two crashes . They were 100% MY fault for not checking correct model selection before take off. .
But it would never happen with spektrum or JR as they have Model Match. . . Which is a GREAT feature and insurance against bozos like me. . .
02-26-2012, 03:42 PM
#53
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
Most radio problems are caused by the operator. I totally agree. Poor radio installations have caused more losses then any manufacturer issue.
That problem existst with all brands of radios.
Just from what you see in the forums here on RCU you can tell there are a lot more issues with Spektrum then with other brands.
No system is perfect and trouble free, but Iam still glad I decided to get a Futaba.
And I'll stick with the brand.
That problem existst with all brands of radios.
Just from what you see in the forums here on RCU you can tell there are a lot more issues with Spektrum then with other brands.
No system is perfect and trouble free, but Iam still glad I decided to get a Futaba.
And I'll stick with the brand.
02-26-2012, 03:45 PM
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: jp1961
Take Horizon Hobby to small claims court.
Take Horizon Hobby to small claims court.
It would be 5 minutes. . .
A Horizon Hobby tech would demonstrate to the court that the AR8000 was bound to the transmitter in DSM2 mode. . .
A dsm2 labelled receiver operating in dsm2 mode. . . Case closed. . . Claimant to pay court costs. . .
Next case . . .
02-26-2012, 03:45 PM
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
I think that if I had so many problems and confusion as to what works with what, I'd have to get something more simple. I have 10 planes on one radio, and when I go to the field I fly. No satellites,no telemetry and no issues. If I thought a system lost a plane for whatever reason, that would be enough for me. That goes for any brand .
02-26-2012, 03:51 PM
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: Rob2160
Futaba has NO protection against this . .
Futaba has NO protection against this . .
Futaba has protection but is a feature you have to enable, when you turn on the radio it will ask you what model you will like to use.
I've used and own both systems, I prefer Futaba programming and flexibility of their radios.
Doug.
02-26-2012, 04:01 PM
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: DougV
Rob,
Futaba has protection but is a feature you have to enable, when you turn on the radio it will ask you what model you will like to use.
I've used and own both systems, I prefer Futaba programming and flexibility of their radios.
Doug.
ORIGINAL: Rob2160
Futaba has NO protection against this . .
Futaba has NO protection against this . .
Futaba has protection but is a feature you have to enable, when you turn on the radio it will ask you what model you will like to use.
I've used and own both systems, I prefer Futaba programming and flexibility of their radios.
Doug.
And The 7c and 6ex models dont have this feature. .
If you have the wrong model selected with spektrum then you have zero control of the model and cant even power up. .
I love futaba but since i use and trust both spektrum and futaba i will defend either of them... My first spektrum dx8 had a faulty gimbal but was recalled and repaired free of charge and is now perfect. . . That is a good customer experience for me. .
I didnt crash due to a faulty gimbal as i picked it up before flight due to (somewhat anal testing processes)
But overall, these radios are great.
02-26-2012, 04:31 PM
#58
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
When deciding to switch to 2.4 ghz from 72, i looked at spektrum, they looked good, but went with futaba because i found a good deal. I have seen lots of planes go down under spektrum control, very little with futaba. Might be most people use spektrum where I fly. Spektrum supporters scream and yell it is the operators fault for not installing the receiver properly, or to weak of batteries. I flew a plane with the receiver barely held down with and flew with out issue many times.
I think spektrum has quality products, but i dont feel the need to check, double check, then triple check, and add an extra receiver for reduntancy, just to make sure things go ok, oh and also make sure batteries are completely fully charged. If you are willing to give up the security of a more reliable system regardless of installation, buy what you want. but after many years of experience in many different areas, you ultimately get what you pay for. There is a reason why Lexus cost more than Toyota, same brand but different..
Save money buying spektrum, but spend more time making sure everything is perfect for it. And you will have no issues, just a choice you have to make.
I think spektrum has quality products, but i dont feel the need to check, double check, then triple check, and add an extra receiver for reduntancy, just to make sure things go ok, oh and also make sure batteries are completely fully charged. If you are willing to give up the security of a more reliable system regardless of installation, buy what you want. but after many years of experience in many different areas, you ultimately get what you pay for. There is a reason why Lexus cost more than Toyota, same brand but different..
Save money buying spektrum, but spend more time making sure everything is perfect for it. And you will have no issues, just a choice you have to make.
02-26-2012, 04:47 PM
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
Satellite this, dsm2 that........go futaba fasst and never lose another plane. I wouldnt put that crap in a foamy!!! Always forums on spektrum failing....hmmm....seems repetitious doesnt it.
02-26-2012, 04:48 PM
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
Had you bought a futaba radio you wouldnt have this problem with sneak, shady and on-purpose problems...sorry for your loss it defiantly hurts every time i see one go down.
02-26-2012, 04:49 PM
#61
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
OMG! Some people really need to have a life outside of this forum. Other people need to think a little more about what they say before they say it. Other people need to get off their high horse and realize the majority of people in this hobby are average fliers, not in it for the competition or glory, they just enjoy the hobby.
There are those on this forum that have told me what kind of equipment I have and are wrong. Have told me that things are impossible and won't work and they are wrong. Have said a HH tech could go into court and demonstrate something won't bind while I can have the recevier and satelite, both clearly marked DSM2, show on the radio as DSMX and have the satelite not work. Case closed? Preponderance of the evidence is that my example and exidence would clearly show it IS possible to have them connected and still fly. That is the only claim I have made.
Really people get a life. I have never indicated or intended to file a suit although others have suggested it. This thread was designed to alert people of a potential issue and educate them that this scenario is possible and please be careful.
And for the comment of my radio being DSM2, it came as a DSMX with the logo on the front of the radio. It was NOT bought as a DSM2 and then upgraded. And yes, it came with an AR8000 labeled as a DSM2.
End of discussion. End of my involvement. Bash away people. I'm tired of your self righteous diatribe of things and judgements you have no knowledge of, including my equipment, experience, etc.
I hope all is well in your world. 
And for those of you that responded appropriately on this thread, to the issue brought forth and not personal attacks, I thank you.
02-26-2012, 06:03 PM
#62
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
what was an appropriate response lol???
When you plane crashed did you try to find the real reason it crashed that day or did you find something not working and assumed that was the problem.
believe it not most of the guys in here are trying to help you out and to help you understand your failure and how we think you are going after the wrong cause of your crash.
The guys not helping are the ones saying spektrum is junk and i wouldnt even fly it in my park flyer lol. buy futaba its the only radio that will not crash your plane blah blah blah...
You said "OMG! Some people really need to have a life outside of this forum. " well that goes for you also. lol if you really wanted to warn people of a potiential problem you would have just posted your problem and told people to beware yet you didnt get the answer you was looking for in one thread so you went and opened another lol.
quite bashing spektrum on here and call HH and discuss your problem and how you would like them to work something out with if thier problem. sending an email is just to easy for you and the tech department. Call them and discuss over the phone and keep talking with to fiqure out what went wrong.
By the HH has the best customer service i have ever dealt with. most all repairs were free or very cheap.
When you plane crashed did you try to find the real reason it crashed that day or did you find something not working and assumed that was the problem.
believe it not most of the guys in here are trying to help you out and to help you understand your failure and how we think you are going after the wrong cause of your crash.
The guys not helping are the ones saying spektrum is junk and i wouldnt even fly it in my park flyer lol. buy futaba its the only radio that will not crash your plane blah blah blah...
You said "OMG! Some people really need to have a life outside of this forum. " well that goes for you also. lol if you really wanted to warn people of a potiential problem you would have just posted your problem and told people to beware yet you didnt get the answer you was looking for in one thread so you went and opened another lol.
quite bashing spektrum on here and call HH and discuss your problem and how you would like them to work something out with if thier problem. sending an email is just to easy for you and the tech department. Call them and discuss over the phone and keep talking with to fiqure out what went wrong.
By the HH has the best customer service i have ever dealt with. most all repairs were free or very cheap.
02-26-2012, 07:02 PM
#63
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: OliverJacob
When I was getting a new system I looked at Spektrum first, here on RCU lots of people having problems with these. Brownouts and receivers came 'unbound' clearly wasn't something I want to deal with. So I got a Futaba 8FG and never had any issues with this.
I you'd ask me how their customer service is, I would not know - because I never needed it.
They do not have Telemetry (only on the very expensive systems) or BNF, but there are aftermarket solutions now.
I have around 15 receivers in my planes and helicopters and never had had link issues or 'brownouts'.
And I could not enjoy this hobby as much when I had to worry about these problems so much.
There might be problems with some Futaba systems, but there are minor compared to others.
Just my 2 cents
When I was getting a new system I looked at Spektrum first, here on RCU lots of people having problems with these. Brownouts and receivers came 'unbound' clearly wasn't something I want to deal with. So I got a Futaba 8FG and never had any issues with this.
I you'd ask me how their customer service is, I would not know - because I never needed it.
They do not have Telemetry (only on the very expensive systems) or BNF, but there are aftermarket solutions now.
I have around 15 receivers in my planes and helicopters and never had had link issues or 'brownouts'.
And I could not enjoy this hobby as much when I had to worry about these problems so much.
There might be problems with some Futaba systems, but there are minor compared to others.
Just my 2 cents
I have a DX7 never an issue with it so I just got a DX8, others have proved brown outs for the most part were due to low voltage on the RX side of the system and not the system itself.
02-26-2012, 07:55 PM
#64
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: Srewinkel
When deciding to switch to 2.4 ghz from 72, i looked at spektrum, they looked good, but went with futaba because i found a good deal. I have seen lots of planes go down under spektrum control, very little with futaba. Might be most people use spektrum where I fly. Spektrum supporters scream and yell it is the operators fault for not installing the receiver properly, or to weak of batteries. I flew a plane with the receiver barely held down with and flew with out issue many times.
I think spektrum has quality products, but i dont feel the need to check, double check, then triple check, and add an extra receiver for reduntancy, just to make sure things go ok, oh and also make sure batteries are completely fully charged. If you are willing to give up the security of a more reliable system regardless of installation, buy what you want. but after many years of experience in many different areas, you ultimately get what you pay for. There is a reason why Lexus cost more than Toyota, same brand but different..
Save money buying spektrum, but spend more time making sure everything is perfect for it. And you will have no issues, just a choice you have to make.
When deciding to switch to 2.4 ghz from 72, i looked at spektrum, they looked good, but went with futaba because i found a good deal. I have seen lots of planes go down under spektrum control, very little with futaba. Might be most people use spektrum where I fly. Spektrum supporters scream and yell it is the operators fault for not installing the receiver properly, or to weak of batteries. I flew a plane with the receiver barely held down with and flew with out issue many times.
I think spektrum has quality products, but i dont feel the need to check, double check, then triple check, and add an extra receiver for reduntancy, just to make sure things go ok, oh and also make sure batteries are completely fully charged. If you are willing to give up the security of a more reliable system regardless of installation, buy what you want. but after many years of experience in many different areas, you ultimately get what you pay for. There is a reason why Lexus cost more than Toyota, same brand but different..
Save money buying spektrum, but spend more time making sure everything is perfect for it. And you will have no issues, just a choice you have to make.
Reading all these horror stories aboutSpektrum and they are out of the game before even starting..
I have a $69 Hobbyking Spitfire..
It has a $20 Spektrum compatible receiver DSM2..
I use a Hobbyking Lipo $12...
This has over 500 flights and is TOTALLY reliable, even to the limits of vision.. I use a DX6i,
for $300 you can have awesome fun in this hobby..Like this.. .
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUr81q8hqpg[/youtube]
yes, Futaba are great radios.. but in my experience (for most of 2011 flying over 30 flights per day.. - 50% with spektrum and 50% futaba) both have been Totally reliable..
Here is a helicopter flown on a DX6i, totally reliably for hundreds of flights..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRhfoRELHmY[/youtube]
Total cost of the Heli Under $150
And the BEST part of Spektrum.. these ultra micro Bind and Fly aircraft..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQCu0FA-2TU[/youtube]
how much fun is that?..... You can't fly one of these with a Futaba radio..
Futaba is great and works awesome in my Gaui X5
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZfWbBgihY[/youtube]
I am just a sport flyer, but i can fly anything confidently enough to know I will never crash due to finger trouble.. The only crashes that will occur will be due to mechanical or radio failure and after 2 years of operating Futaba, Spektrum AND JR radios, all have performed flawlessly.. I trust them all equally.
These videos are posted to show I am not just talking out of my arse.. I actually do fly all of the brands and over thousands of flights...
02-26-2012, 07:58 PM
#65
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
This is why i kept my Futaba 9C and purchased a module FUTL8953 and R6008HS 2.4 module from Futaba it cost more 250 but still have that warm feeling when i send my 33% yak up with no concerns unless my dumb thumbs mess up!!!!!It is all about confidence
02-26-2012, 08:22 PM
#67
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: jefflangton
Satellite this, dsm2 that........go futaba fasst and never lose another plane. I wouldnt put that crap in a foamy!!! Always forums on spektrum failing....hmmm....seems repetitious doesnt it.
Satellite this, dsm2 that........go futaba fasst and never lose another plane. I wouldnt put that crap in a foamy!!! Always forums on spektrum failing....hmmm....seems repetitious doesnt it.
It would not have happened with Spektrum due to the Model Match Feature which is really good insurance against bozos like me..
But what testing have YOU done Personally to prove Futaba is Better than Spektrum...
The Best Range I have achieved from Any 2.4 system was with a JR Radio and a Spektrum Receiver, which was reproducibly MUCH better than any Futaba system I have tested..
Here is a vid to prove it..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gl6e25m9WU[/youtube]
You criticise the satellites, but have you TESTED them yourself.. they actually work.. with 3 of the 4 antenna blocked and just ONE of the satellite antennas visibile, the Entire system WORKS..
Listen to the first part of this video after I did a series of testing with a brand new DX8
and yes,I have many Futaba radios which also work great..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV_SaVm-xlo[/youtube]
02-26-2012, 08:33 PM
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: airraptor
what was an appropriate response lol???
When you plane crashed did you try to find the real reason it crashed that day or did you find something not working and assumed that was the problem.
believe it not most of the guys in here are trying to help you out and to help you understand your failure and how we think you are going after the wrong cause of your crash.
The guys not helping are the ones saying spektrum is junk and i wouldnt even fly it in my park flyer lol. buy futaba its the only radio that will not crash your plane blah blah blah...
You said "OMG! Some people really need to have a life outside of this forum. " well that goes for you also. lol if you really wanted to warn people of a potiential problem you would have just posted your problem and told people to beware yet you didnt get the answer you was looking for in one thread so you went and opened another lol.
quite bashing spektrum on here and call HH and discuss your problem and how you would like them to work something out with if thier problem. sending an email is just to easy for you and the tech department. Call them and discuss over the phone and keep talking with to fiqure out what went wrong.
By the HH has the best customer service i have ever dealt with. most all repairs were free or very cheap.
what was an appropriate response lol???
When you plane crashed did you try to find the real reason it crashed that day or did you find something not working and assumed that was the problem.
believe it not most of the guys in here are trying to help you out and to help you understand your failure and how we think you are going after the wrong cause of your crash.
The guys not helping are the ones saying spektrum is junk and i wouldnt even fly it in my park flyer lol. buy futaba its the only radio that will not crash your plane blah blah blah...
You said "OMG! Some people really need to have a life outside of this forum. " well that goes for you also. lol if you really wanted to warn people of a potiential problem you would have just posted your problem and told people to beware yet you didnt get the answer you was looking for in one thread so you went and opened another lol.
quite bashing spektrum on here and call HH and discuss your problem and how you would like them to work something out with if thier problem. sending an email is just to easy for you and the tech department. Call them and discuss over the phone and keep talking with to fiqure out what went wrong.
By the HH has the best customer service i have ever dealt with. most all repairs were free or very cheap.
02-26-2012, 08:49 PM
#69
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: abcarr711
OMG! Some people really need to have a life outside of this forum. Other people need to think a little more about what they say before they say it. Other people need to get off their high horse and realize the majority of people in this hobby are average fliers, not in it for the competition or glory, they just enjoy the hobby.
OMG! Some people really need to have a life outside of this forum. Other people need to think a little more about what they say before they say it. Other people need to get off their high horse and realize the majority of people in this hobby are average fliers, not in it for the competition or glory, they just enjoy the hobby.
There are those on this forum that have told me what kind of equipment I have and are wrong. Have told me that things are impossible and won't work and they are wrong. Have said a HH tech could go into court and demonstrate something won't bind while I can have the recevier and satelite, both clearly marked DSM2, show on the radio as DSMX and have the satelite not work. Case closed? Preponderance of the evidence is that my example and exidence would clearly show it IS possible to have them connected and still fly. That is the only claim I have made.
Really people get a life. I have never indicated or intended to file a suit although others have suggested it. This thread was designed to alert people of a potential issue and educate them that this scenario is possible and please be careful.
And for the comment of my radio being DSM2, it came as a DSMX with the logo on the front of the radio. It was NOT bought as a DSM2 and then upgraded. And yes, it came with an AR8000 labeled as a DSM2.
End of discussion. End of my involvement. Bash away people. I'm tired of your self righteous diatribe of things and judgements you have no knowledge of, including my equipment, experience, etc.
I hope all is well in your world.
And for those of you that responded appropriately on this thread, to the issue brought forth and not personal attacks, I thank you.
It is entirely possible that you received an incorrect combination of DSMx capable AR8000 and a Non DSMX capable, DSM2 only Satellite..
In which case.. if the TX is Truly in DSMX mode, you won't have the light on in the satellite.... which means it is NOT bound to your TX and in this case DON"T fly...
Seriously, sorry if my blubbering didn't help you.. I am trying to help..
Try these steps please and post your results so we can better help you...
1. Set the TX to DSM2 ONLYMode.
Bind the AR8000 with your Satellite.. confirm they are BOTH in DSM2 mode by using the brownout detection feature, and noting the time it takes to recover from a loss of TX signal.. (what does the TX show as the operating mode... should be DSM2)
Again, watch my video if you are not sure how to test this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Tbes9f1_c
Step 2...
Switch the TX back to DSMX mode and RE Bind the same AR8000 with the same Satellite..
Once bound.. ARE the orange lights visible on both the AR8000 and the Satellite?
Then test again, to confirm BOTH are in DSMX mode..
Post your results and we will have a better understanding of your situation and can better help you..
It is NOT unfeasible that you got an AR8000 shipped with a NON DSMX compatible satellite, mistakes do happen, but if this was the case and you follow the correct binding process it should have been detected before flying..
Either way.. this combination should work FINE if the TX is set to DSM2 mode..
So you actually have a DSM2 receiver in the AR8000, it is fully DSM2 compliant, but also DSMX capable..
and YES, I do need to get a life.. I spend way too much time sitting around in Hotel rooms and causing trouble on forums..
Cheers.
02-26-2012, 08:55 PM
#70
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
For those who don't understand what DSM2 and DSMXis all about.. this video explains it really well..
This guy knows his stuff..
In fact.. I had forgotten his comments about Spektrum improving the lowvoltage tolerance with theAR8000..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQKoXpj-FeI&feature=plcp&context=C301d10eUDOEgsToPDskIB5vS rUurEu2XabP3RI0cA[/youtube]
and this is one of his older reviews on DSM2 which again explains it way better than I ever could..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy7Gg6Tj57Q&feature=plcp&context=C3f17cf5U DOEgsToPDskKZypEjYKNGeM3tfRNgQBaM[/youtube]
This guy knows his stuff..
In fact.. I had forgotten his comments about Spektrum improving the lowvoltage tolerance with theAR8000..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQKoXpj-FeI&feature=plcp&context=C301d10eUDOEgsToPDskIB5vS rUurEu2XabP3RI0cA[/youtube]
and this is one of his older reviews on DSM2 which again explains it way better than I ever could..
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy7Gg6Tj57Q&feature=plcp&context=C3f17cf5U DOEgsToPDskKZypEjYKNGeM3tfRNgQBaM[/youtube]
02-26-2012, 08:57 PM
#71
My Feedback: (56)
RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
I happen to agree with you that HH screwed the pooch. You are absolutely correct especially in light of their statement of a combination of both working. since the beginnings of RC radio manufacturers have denied liability and responsibility when they make a blatant error. Look at Futabas screw up in their first foray into 2.4ghz when some worker was asleep at the switch at incrementing serial numbers and a number of transmitters got out that would interfere with each other because they bound with the same serial number and would interfere. Not supposed to happen on 2.4 right? Well it did and they had a frantic recall.
I suppose if you had a Chevrolet and put Cadillac emblems on it and told prospective buyers it was a Cadillac that would be alright? I don't think so.
I see exactly what you did and yes you made a mistake but you were mislead by the labeling and the new DSMX is just emerging and we have to depend on the manufacturer to give us correct information as well as correct labeling and they failed on both counts. You think HH is telling us the truth all the time? Call them and ask them when the DM9 or whatever the designation is for the tx module will be available and see what line of BS you get. The ETA has changed 6 times.
I suppose if you had a Chevrolet and put Cadillac emblems on it and told prospective buyers it was a Cadillac that would be alright? I don't think so.
I see exactly what you did and yes you made a mistake but you were mislead by the labeling and the new DSMX is just emerging and we have to depend on the manufacturer to give us correct information as well as correct labeling and they failed on both counts. You think HH is telling us the truth all the time? Call them and ask them when the DM9 or whatever the designation is for the tx module will be available and see what line of BS you get. The ETA has changed 6 times.
02-26-2012, 11:28 PM
#72
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RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
You know, I read this post again twice through and sorry for shooting my mouth off... please let me try to respond exactly according to your post.. my responses are embedded in your text...
Again, sorry if I am repeating myself, try setting your Radio to DSM2 and then rebinding your AR8000 to the radio and then try to tell me the AR8000 is NOT a DSM2 receiver...
Please just try it.. if your AR8000 CANNOT bind to your DX8 when set to DSM2 mode, theni will stand corrected and admit I am wrong..
ORIGINAL: abcarr711
OK, I started another thread that seemed to get way out of hand when I reported I was frustrated with how I was treated and what I feel is the lack of customer service. The thread got way off topic to the extent of talking about A123 batteries andand other things far from the original intent. For me, my frustrations were due what appeared to be a radio failure and I am not here to debate that. It is all up to personal opinion. I am not here to product bash.
I am here to voice concerns over what is actual admitted misrepresentation. In my original post, I spoke of two AR8000 DSM2 receivers that were intentionally mislabeled by SPEKTRUM as DSM2 receivers.
But you do understand that the AR8000 is a DSM2 Receiver... it is ALSO a DSMX receiver, if you bind it to a DSM2 Radio it will work, if you bind it to a DSMX radio it will work, if you bind it to a DSMX radio that has been set to DSM2 Only, then it will WORK as a DSM2 Receiver.. So if you actually understand this, then you can't say it is Mislabelled because it TRULYis a DSM2 receiver.. (When first released with the DX8 Radio it was ONLY capable of DSM2 as the DSMX firmware was not yet available for the TX... - I bought one like this but fully understood the situation with the RX being DSM2 but DSMX READY when the TX firmware came out.. this is infact the reason I bought a DX8 in the first place
In the plane that crashed, the receiver and the satelite receiver were both clearly marked as DSM2 receivers, but according to product support at Horizon Hobby, only the Satelite receiver is DSM2. The AR8000 receiver is actually DSMX although it is clearly marked as DSM2.
The Satellite in your case seems to have been an older one ONLY capable of DSM2.. NOT DSMX... Again I ask you.. do you understand that the AR8000 ACTUALLY is a DSM2 Receiver, capable of operating completely in DSM2 mode?
They continued to tell me that they are not compatible with each other although they were both clearly marked as DSM2. After the crash, thenext time I tried to bind the receiver with satelite, the receiver bound but the satelite did not light up. So I sent them to HH for troubleshooting and repair. That is when they told me the two DSM2 marked receivers were not compatible, because one was not a DSM2 receiver.
And here is the BIGGESTclue of all.. when you BIND to the radio, the RECEIVERBound, but the Satellite did NOT light up.. Immediately that tells me the Satellite is NOT DSMX compatible.. In this case you could have set your TX to DSM2 ONLYmode and both your AR8000 and the DSM2 satellite would bind and you would have the lights.
Other people (in the other post) said they tried to bind with mixmatched receivers and said the AR8000 would bind, but the servos would not react. Same as I reported to HH when I sent in my receiver. However, in further testing, I found that a bound AR8000 when connected to a DSM2 satelite will still function and servos move correctly, even though the satelite receiver is not functional.
Am I the only one who gets this?? If you have an AR8000 with a DSM2 Only capable Satellite.. then you CAN bind both successfully to a DX8 if the TX is set to DSM2 ONLY mode..
If you have it set to DSMX mode, the AR8000 Will bind in DSMX mode but the satellite will not bind at all..
Yes the Servos will move but you need to confirm you have lights onboth the AR8000 and the Satellite to confirm a successful bind.. If you didn't have those lights on both, then DONTfly..
I cannot explain how the two got mixed together in my plane, but I did not have any Spektrum receivers that were seprated from each other at any time. All of my planes work and function, but if what they say is true, at least one other plane should not function either, as I have no spare satelite receivers.
At any rate, I am not here to defend or condemn the lost plane or anything related to it. I am here to let people learn from my misfortune and advise them that SPEKTRUM has knowingly and admitted to mislabeling AR8000 receivers as DSM2 receivers and if you have the misfortune to mix up a clearly marked DSM2 satelite receiver with another clearly marked DSM2 satelite receiver with an AR8000 that is clearly marked as a DSM2 receiver, you could have disasterous results.
I am repeating myself.. the AR8000 IS a DSM2 Receiver.. if you know what settings to use in your radio then it will operate correctly in DSM2 mode..
Make sense?
I don't mean to be insulting, but reading this post it seems you don't understand your Transmitter gives you the OPTIONof DSM2 and DSMX... if you have it set accordingly, the AR8000 WILLbind in DSM2 mode..
If you understand this, then you would not be saying it was mislabelled.. It IS a DSM2 Receiver.. and can operate as such.. Try binding it to an OLD DX6i that is ONLY DSM2 and it will bind fine and work fine.. so it IS a DSM2 Receiver..
if your radio is capable of DSMx then the AR8000 will switch automatically to DSMx mode.. and so will a DSMX capable satellite and you will have BOTHLights illumitated.
If the Satellite is NOT DSMX compatible and your TX is in DSMX mode, then only the AR8000 will bind and the Satellite will not, but then you won't have a light on the satellite and you SHOULDNOTFLY....
If you put the TX into DSM2 mode, then the AR8000 becomes a DSM2 receiver and both it and the satellite will bind correctly in DSM2 mode..
I can't explain this any more clearly.. Please someone else tell me they understand this... it really is very simple..
Turns out, I think they mislabeled more receivers.
Just to expand on this more.. if you have a Futaba 8FG, and youuse a 617FS Futaba Receiver you MUST set the transmitter to 7 channel mode or the receiverWILLNot bind at all..
If you have an 8 channel or above Futaba receiver thenit will bind fine in Multimode... so it is important you setyour transmitter to the correct setting for the Receiver you are using.. in this respect, Futaba andSpektrum are the same...
I have several airplanes, all with Spektrum receivers, bound to my DX8 radio. The great thing about the DX8 radio is that it tells you on the main screen which technology your receiver is.
Yes it does...butyou can OVERRIDE this andmanuallyTELL the Receiver which mode to operate in... DSM2or DSMX
I can confirm that my AR8000 clearly marked as a DSM2 receiver shows up on my transmitter as DSMX.
Because your TXis set to DSMX mode by default.. if you go into the settings options,change it to DSM2 Mode, rebind and it will show you that the AR8000 is in DSM2 mode...
This confirms what Horizon Hobby told me, that they intentionally mis-labeled these receivers because the DSMX technology had not yet been announced. Kind of like getting "New Coke" in an orignal "Coke" can. New and improved, so you should be happy, right? Not everybody like "New Coke", so here came "Classic Coke", a remake of the original, so to speak.
If you understand that you CAN select DSM2 mode in your Transmitter, then you have the Choice of New Coke or Old Coke.. They give YOU the option.. If you don't like NEW COKE, select OLD COKE.. you had that choice and option available to you the DAY you bought your radio..
So back to my point. Today, I finally assembled an Eflite Carbon Z Yak 54 BNF. It came with an AR600 DSM2 receiver. Or so I thought. The plane appears to be great, fit and finish is great. Assembly was about 20 minutes. I charged the included battery and plugged it in. Low and behold the DX8 registered the AR600 (again, clearly marked as DSM2) as a DSMX receiver.
Again, you choose, you can choose OLD COKE if you prefer.. and then the AR600 will be a DSM2 receiver...
I am wondering how many other receivers could have the same issue? So we know of at least two models incorrectly labeled.
It is NOT an issue, it is a capability.. YOUchoose the mode.. You choose DSM2 if you prefer OLD COKE or you get New Coke by default, because in this case DSMX is Vastly superior to DSM2.
Misrepresentation is wrong. Is it illegal? I don't know, but it makes me wonder what other items they mislabel or could mislabel in the future. We now know and can create a pattern of misrepresentation by Spektrum on their receivers.
Ok, here is my question.. do you really think it was mislabelled? What about ALLthe 4 Wheel drive vehicles currently on the road, that operate in 2 Wheel Drive mode for 99% of their Life? Are they mislabelled? NO... because they are CAPABLEof 4 Wheel Driver mode at the Driver's discretion.. the Driver chooses 4wd when necessary or 2wd by default..
Just like YOUcan choose DSM2 if you really want to.. so the AR8000 is NOMORE Mislabelled than EVERY4wd vehicle on the road that operates mostly in 2wd mode....
Could my mishap been avoided if the receivers had been labeled correctly? Very possible. Have others lost planes in this same fashion? That is what I would like to know.
Yes, I will agree with you here.. but the mishap could also have been avoided if you confirmed the lights on Both the RX and the Satellite were illuminated before flight..
I don't care about brown out, battery talk, etc. I am wondering about people that may have lost a plane due to the mislabeling and possible mismatching of receivers that were clearly marked as DSM2 when they were not.
Sigh... But they ARE!....
here is a link to the AR8000 on the Spektrum website.. it is labelled with an X.. showing it is DSMx capable.. but reading the specifications you can see that it is ALSO DSM2 capable.. so if you received an RX with the X on it would you alsobe saying it is Mislabelled since it can be used as a DSM2 receiver...
http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...odID=SPMAR8000
Thanks.
OK, I started another thread that seemed to get way out of hand when I reported I was frustrated with how I was treated and what I feel is the lack of customer service. The thread got way off topic to the extent of talking about A123 batteries andand other things far from the original intent. For me, my frustrations were due what appeared to be a radio failure and I am not here to debate that. It is all up to personal opinion. I am not here to product bash.
I am here to voice concerns over what is actual admitted misrepresentation. In my original post, I spoke of two AR8000 DSM2 receivers that were intentionally mislabeled by SPEKTRUM as DSM2 receivers.
But you do understand that the AR8000 is a DSM2 Receiver... it is ALSO a DSMX receiver, if you bind it to a DSM2 Radio it will work, if you bind it to a DSMX radio it will work, if you bind it to a DSMX radio that has been set to DSM2 Only, then it will WORK as a DSM2 Receiver.. So if you actually understand this, then you can't say it is Mislabelled because it TRULYis a DSM2 receiver.. (When first released with the DX8 Radio it was ONLY capable of DSM2 as the DSMX firmware was not yet available for the TX... - I bought one like this but fully understood the situation with the RX being DSM2 but DSMX READY when the TX firmware came out.. this is infact the reason I bought a DX8 in the first place
In the plane that crashed, the receiver and the satelite receiver were both clearly marked as DSM2 receivers, but according to product support at Horizon Hobby, only the Satelite receiver is DSM2. The AR8000 receiver is actually DSMX although it is clearly marked as DSM2.
The Satellite in your case seems to have been an older one ONLY capable of DSM2.. NOT DSMX... Again I ask you.. do you understand that the AR8000 ACTUALLY is a DSM2 Receiver, capable of operating completely in DSM2 mode?
They continued to tell me that they are not compatible with each other although they were both clearly marked as DSM2. After the crash, thenext time I tried to bind the receiver with satelite, the receiver bound but the satelite did not light up. So I sent them to HH for troubleshooting and repair. That is when they told me the two DSM2 marked receivers were not compatible, because one was not a DSM2 receiver.
And here is the BIGGESTclue of all.. when you BIND to the radio, the RECEIVERBound, but the Satellite did NOT light up.. Immediately that tells me the Satellite is NOT DSMX compatible.. In this case you could have set your TX to DSM2 ONLYmode and both your AR8000 and the DSM2 satellite would bind and you would have the lights.
Other people (in the other post) said they tried to bind with mixmatched receivers and said the AR8000 would bind, but the servos would not react. Same as I reported to HH when I sent in my receiver. However, in further testing, I found that a bound AR8000 when connected to a DSM2 satelite will still function and servos move correctly, even though the satelite receiver is not functional.
Am I the only one who gets this?? If you have an AR8000 with a DSM2 Only capable Satellite.. then you CAN bind both successfully to a DX8 if the TX is set to DSM2 ONLY mode..
If you have it set to DSMX mode, the AR8000 Will bind in DSMX mode but the satellite will not bind at all..
Yes the Servos will move but you need to confirm you have lights onboth the AR8000 and the Satellite to confirm a successful bind.. If you didn't have those lights on both, then DONTfly..
I cannot explain how the two got mixed together in my plane, but I did not have any Spektrum receivers that were seprated from each other at any time. All of my planes work and function, but if what they say is true, at least one other plane should not function either, as I have no spare satelite receivers.
At any rate, I am not here to defend or condemn the lost plane or anything related to it. I am here to let people learn from my misfortune and advise them that SPEKTRUM has knowingly and admitted to mislabeling AR8000 receivers as DSM2 receivers and if you have the misfortune to mix up a clearly marked DSM2 satelite receiver with another clearly marked DSM2 satelite receiver with an AR8000 that is clearly marked as a DSM2 receiver, you could have disasterous results.
I am repeating myself.. the AR8000 IS a DSM2 Receiver.. if you know what settings to use in your radio then it will operate correctly in DSM2 mode..
Make sense?
I don't mean to be insulting, but reading this post it seems you don't understand your Transmitter gives you the OPTIONof DSM2 and DSMX... if you have it set accordingly, the AR8000 WILLbind in DSM2 mode..
If you understand this, then you would not be saying it was mislabelled.. It IS a DSM2 Receiver.. and can operate as such.. Try binding it to an OLD DX6i that is ONLY DSM2 and it will bind fine and work fine.. so it IS a DSM2 Receiver..
if your radio is capable of DSMx then the AR8000 will switch automatically to DSMx mode.. and so will a DSMX capable satellite and you will have BOTHLights illumitated.
If the Satellite is NOT DSMX compatible and your TX is in DSMX mode, then only the AR8000 will bind and the Satellite will not, but then you won't have a light on the satellite and you SHOULDNOTFLY....
If you put the TX into DSM2 mode, then the AR8000 becomes a DSM2 receiver and both it and the satellite will bind correctly in DSM2 mode..
I can't explain this any more clearly.. Please someone else tell me they understand this... it really is very simple..
Turns out, I think they mislabeled more receivers.
Just to expand on this more.. if you have a Futaba 8FG, and youuse a 617FS Futaba Receiver you MUST set the transmitter to 7 channel mode or the receiverWILLNot bind at all..
If you have an 8 channel or above Futaba receiver thenit will bind fine in Multimode... so it is important you setyour transmitter to the correct setting for the Receiver you are using.. in this respect, Futaba andSpektrum are the same...
I have several airplanes, all with Spektrum receivers, bound to my DX8 radio. The great thing about the DX8 radio is that it tells you on the main screen which technology your receiver is.
Yes it does...butyou can OVERRIDE this andmanuallyTELL the Receiver which mode to operate in... DSM2or DSMX
I can confirm that my AR8000 clearly marked as a DSM2 receiver shows up on my transmitter as DSMX.
Because your TXis set to DSMX mode by default.. if you go into the settings options,change it to DSM2 Mode, rebind and it will show you that the AR8000 is in DSM2 mode...
This confirms what Horizon Hobby told me, that they intentionally mis-labeled these receivers because the DSMX technology had not yet been announced. Kind of like getting "New Coke" in an orignal "Coke" can. New and improved, so you should be happy, right? Not everybody like "New Coke", so here came "Classic Coke", a remake of the original, so to speak.
If you understand that you CAN select DSM2 mode in your Transmitter, then you have the Choice of New Coke or Old Coke.. They give YOU the option.. If you don't like NEW COKE, select OLD COKE.. you had that choice and option available to you the DAY you bought your radio..
So back to my point. Today, I finally assembled an Eflite Carbon Z Yak 54 BNF. It came with an AR600 DSM2 receiver. Or so I thought. The plane appears to be great, fit and finish is great. Assembly was about 20 minutes. I charged the included battery and plugged it in. Low and behold the DX8 registered the AR600 (again, clearly marked as DSM2) as a DSMX receiver.
Again, you choose, you can choose OLD COKE if you prefer.. and then the AR600 will be a DSM2 receiver...
I am wondering how many other receivers could have the same issue? So we know of at least two models incorrectly labeled.
It is NOT an issue, it is a capability.. YOUchoose the mode.. You choose DSM2 if you prefer OLD COKE or you get New Coke by default, because in this case DSMX is Vastly superior to DSM2.
Misrepresentation is wrong. Is it illegal? I don't know, but it makes me wonder what other items they mislabel or could mislabel in the future. We now know and can create a pattern of misrepresentation by Spektrum on their receivers.
Ok, here is my question.. do you really think it was mislabelled? What about ALLthe 4 Wheel drive vehicles currently on the road, that operate in 2 Wheel Drive mode for 99% of their Life? Are they mislabelled? NO... because they are CAPABLEof 4 Wheel Driver mode at the Driver's discretion.. the Driver chooses 4wd when necessary or 2wd by default..
Just like YOUcan choose DSM2 if you really want to.. so the AR8000 is NOMORE Mislabelled than EVERY4wd vehicle on the road that operates mostly in 2wd mode....
Could my mishap been avoided if the receivers had been labeled correctly? Very possible. Have others lost planes in this same fashion? That is what I would like to know.
Yes, I will agree with you here.. but the mishap could also have been avoided if you confirmed the lights on Both the RX and the Satellite were illuminated before flight..
I don't care about brown out, battery talk, etc. I am wondering about people that may have lost a plane due to the mislabeling and possible mismatching of receivers that were clearly marked as DSM2 when they were not.
Sigh... But they ARE!....
here is a link to the AR8000 on the Spektrum website.. it is labelled with an X.. showing it is DSMx capable.. but reading the specifications you can see that it is ALSO DSM2 capable.. so if you received an RX with the X on it would you alsobe saying it is Mislabelled since it can be used as a DSM2 receiver...
http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...odID=SPMAR8000
Thanks.
Please just try it.. if your AR8000 CANNOT bind to your DX8 when set to DSM2 mode, theni will stand corrected and admit I am wrong..
02-26-2012, 11:56 PM
#73
My Feedback: (41)
RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
I agree with the OP. He actually made sense. A dsmx rx labelled as a dsm2 rx is NOT a dsm2 rx. It is a dsmx rx. This is plain logic. Not saying it won't act as a dsm2 rx, but it is clearly not simply a dsm2 rx. Anyone thinking otherwise should attend a logic course or confer with Spoc.
Putting Model A labelling and pinstriping on a Ferrari and driving it on the freeway at max 45 mph does not make it a Model A.
Putting Model A labelling and pinstriping on a Ferrari and driving it on the freeway at max 45 mph does not make it a Model A.
02-27-2012, 05:33 AM
#75
My Feedback: (2)
RE: SPEKTRUM Misrepresentation?
ORIGINAL: 4*60
I agree with the OP. He actually made sense. A dsmx rx labelled as a dsm2 rx is NOT a dsm2 rx. It is a dsmx rx. This is plain logic. Not saying it won't act as a dsm2 rx, but it is clearly not simply a dsm2 rx. Anyone thinking otherwise should attend a logic course or confer with Spoc.
Putting Model A labelling and pinstriping on a Ferrari and driving it on the freeway at max 45 mph does not make it a Model A.
I agree with the OP. He actually made sense. A dsmx rx labelled as a dsm2 rx is NOT a dsm2 rx. It is a dsmx rx. This is plain logic. Not saying it won't act as a dsm2 rx, but it is clearly not simply a dsm2 rx. Anyone thinking otherwise should attend a logic course or confer with Spoc.
Putting Model A labelling and pinstriping on a Ferrari and driving it on the freeway at max 45 mph does not make it a Model A.
This did not cause a crash.
When DSMX was finally announced, anyone that had purchased one of these DX8's could have had DSMX enabled and it would still work in DSM2 mode or in DSMX mode.
This did not cause a crash. It was not due to Labeling.