Metal coat paint and Spectrum Receivers question
02-10-2024, 04:20 AM
#1
Metal coat paint and Spectrum Receivers question
I am currently installing equipment into a new jet that is about 95% painted with the metal coat paint. Makes the jet almost look chrome. Is there any chance of signal loss to the 4 Spectrum satellite receivers that will be in the jet?
I will do a range check before the maiden flight to verify but I wanted to post here to see if anyone had any experience or issues with the metal coat paint.
Thanks
Joe
02-11-2024, 11:28 AM
#4
I am currently installing equipment into a new jet that is about 95% painted with the metal coat paint. Makes the jet almost look chrome. Is there any chance of signal loss to the 4 Spectrum satellite receivers that will be in the jet?
I will do a range check before the maiden flight to verify but I wanted to post here to see if anyone had any experience or issues with the metal coat paint.
Thanks
Joe
I know it's a bit late now, with the airplane 95% painted, but I think if I was building this I'd have planned from the beginning that the metalized paint could cause signal shielding issues. I'd have perhaps done something like mount a satellite in each wingtip and then paint the tips with something other than the metalized paint. Perhaps the third satellite woulda gone in the cockpit, with hopefully a clear canopy, and the fourth in whatever the next location was that could be made transparent to the TX's signal.
I do believe having them all inside the metal paint covered plane ain't gonna work, and I know of nowhere external on a jet that the satellites could mount effectively.
Last edited by init4fun; 02-11-2024 at 11:30 AM. Reason: clarify my point.....
02-11-2024, 12:50 PM
#5
Hi Joe,
I know it's a bit late now, with the airplane 95% painted, but I think if I was building this I'd have planned from the beginning that the metalized paint could cause signal shielding issues. I'd have perhaps done something like mount a satellite in each wingtip and then paint the tips with something other than the metalized paint. Perhaps the third satellite woulda gone in the cockpit, with hopefully a clear canopy, and the fourth in whatever the next location was that could be made transparent to the TX's signal.
I do believe having them all inside the metal paint covered plane ain't gonna work, and I know of nowhere external on a jet that the satellites could mount effectively.
I know it's a bit late now, with the airplane 95% painted, but I think if I was building this I'd have planned from the beginning that the metalized paint could cause signal shielding issues. I'd have perhaps done something like mount a satellite in each wingtip and then paint the tips with something other than the metalized paint. Perhaps the third satellite woulda gone in the cockpit, with hopefully a clear canopy, and the fourth in whatever the next location was that could be made transparent to the TX's signal.
I do believe having them all inside the metal paint covered plane ain't gonna work, and I know of nowhere external on a jet that the satellites could mount effectively.
02-12-2024, 01:47 PM
#8
I sent him back here because he was already on a roll for good answers here. (I saw the thread here before he made the duplicate post on RCG).
What remotes are you using? Yes, it matters. The SPM97xx types are much more sensitive to signal and so can handle more bad ideas with grace.
What base receiver are you using? The newest ones will actually report signal level as dBm and from that we can know how badly the metal paint is affecting things.
What paint are you using? Some are not as metallic as you might expect. Two good jet people to ask regarding personal experience would be Pete Goldsmith (still using Spektrum) and Dave Ribbe (who won Top Gun and Jet World Masters with a shiny metallic MiG-15 and old Spektrum equipment).
Personally I would try extending the wires a bit to get them in the wingtip. We have to recommend very conservative "will always work without a doubt" limits, but people regularly go outside our recommendations without problems. Of course, you take the liability on yourself in a big way doing that. SRXL2 has error detection so it's much more robust than the old Remote Receiver Protocol we had back when that 36" limitation was created.
What is your plan for ground testing range before flight? Have you considered getting out on a country road with a buddy and having the plane and transmitter half a mile apart and checking?
Can you mount a receiver in the cockpit? Early jets had radio equipment behind the pilot, just like the WW2 fighters. You could stick a remote receiver, especially one of the super sensitive ones like the SPM9747, inside there without making it ugly.
Andy
What remotes are you using? Yes, it matters. The SPM97xx types are much more sensitive to signal and so can handle more bad ideas with grace.
What base receiver are you using? The newest ones will actually report signal level as dBm and from that we can know how badly the metal paint is affecting things.
What paint are you using? Some are not as metallic as you might expect. Two good jet people to ask regarding personal experience would be Pete Goldsmith (still using Spektrum) and Dave Ribbe (who won Top Gun and Jet World Masters with a shiny metallic MiG-15 and old Spektrum equipment).
Personally I would try extending the wires a bit to get them in the wingtip. We have to recommend very conservative "will always work without a doubt" limits, but people regularly go outside our recommendations without problems. Of course, you take the liability on yourself in a big way doing that. SRXL2 has error detection so it's much more robust than the old Remote Receiver Protocol we had back when that 36" limitation was created.
What is your plan for ground testing range before flight? Have you considered getting out on a country road with a buddy and having the plane and transmitter half a mile apart and checking?
Can you mount a receiver in the cockpit? Early jets had radio equipment behind the pilot, just like the WW2 fighters. You could stick a remote receiver, especially one of the super sensitive ones like the SPM9747, inside there without making it ugly.
Andy
02-13-2024, 04:53 AM
#9
I sent him back here because he was already on a roll for good answers here. (I saw the thread here before he made the duplicate post on RCG).
What remotes are you using? Yes, it matters. The SPM97xx types are much more sensitive to signal and so can handle more bad ideas with grace.
What base receiver are you using? The newest ones will actually report signal level as dBm and from that we can know how badly the metal paint is affecting things.
What paint are you using? Some are not as metallic as you might expect. Two good jet people to ask regarding personal experience would be Pete Goldsmith (still using Spektrum) and Dave Ribbe (who won Top Gun and Jet World Masters with a shiny metallic MiG-15 and old Spektrum equipment).
Personally I would try extending the wires a bit to get them in the wingtip. We have to recommend very conservative "will always work without a doubt" limits, but people regularly go outside our recommendations without problems. Of course, you take the liability on yourself in a big way doing that. SRXL2 has error detection so it's much more robust than the old Remote Receiver Protocol we had back when that 36" limitation was created.
What is your plan for ground testing range before flight? Have you considered getting out on a country road with a buddy and having the plane and transmitter half a mile apart and checking?
Can you mount a receiver in the cockpit? Early jets had radio equipment behind the pilot, just like the WW2 fighters. You could stick a remote receiver, especially one of the super sensitive ones like the SPM9747, inside there without making it ugly.
Andy
What remotes are you using? Yes, it matters. The SPM97xx types are much more sensitive to signal and so can handle more bad ideas with grace.
What base receiver are you using? The newest ones will actually report signal level as dBm and from that we can know how badly the metal paint is affecting things.
What paint are you using? Some are not as metallic as you might expect. Two good jet people to ask regarding personal experience would be Pete Goldsmith (still using Spektrum) and Dave Ribbe (who won Top Gun and Jet World Masters with a shiny metallic MiG-15 and old Spektrum equipment).
Personally I would try extending the wires a bit to get them in the wingtip. We have to recommend very conservative "will always work without a doubt" limits, but people regularly go outside our recommendations without problems. Of course, you take the liability on yourself in a big way doing that. SRXL2 has error detection so it's much more robust than the old Remote Receiver Protocol we had back when that 36" limitation was created.
What is your plan for ground testing range before flight? Have you considered getting out on a country road with a buddy and having the plane and transmitter half a mile apart and checking?
Can you mount a receiver in the cockpit? Early jets had radio equipment behind the pilot, just like the WW2 fighters. You could stick a remote receiver, especially one of the super sensitive ones like the SPM9747, inside there without making it ugly.
Andy
I've been building and flying jets for the past 24 years. I have been in the RC hobby for 41 years and flying Spectrum for the past 30 years. This however is my first metal coat jet.
Transmitter is an IX20.
The receiver is an AR 20310T and the satellites are the stock satellites that come with it I believe they are the SPM 9745.
My typical setup for any of my aircraft is one receiver high on the nose, one receiver in the cockpit area or in the cockpit, and two receivers down low in the few slides on either side in the wing route area. All antennas are rotated 90 to 45° from each other in this works well for me.
As far as the jet it is a FeiBao 1/5th F100. As for what kind of paint is on it I am not sure as it was painted at the factory.
If I do extend the leads to the wingtips what kind of connectors are you using so you can remove the wings? I was always of the belief you did not want to cut the leads running out to the satellites and put plugs on them.
Good idea on the range test. I was just going to do the standard 50 paces from the jet having it running and rotate it 360° stopping at the 90° points and seeing what kind of frame lost, fades or holds I would get with the range test button push down on the transmitter.
Also can you put me in touch with the two gentlemen you mentioned above I'm not sure how to get in touch with them.
Thank you for your help
Joe Lewis
02-13-2024, 05:40 AM
#11
I love the "cooked" metal on the tail. Very nice work.
You really need to reach out to Pete Goldsmith, owner of Peter Goldsmith Designs https://www.petergoldsmithdesigns.com/ and tell him I sent you. I'm sure a photo of your F-100 will get him interested even more. Tell him what brand finish you used - different brands have different metal content that might affect the operation more or less. He can also tell you where he has the remotes in his - you may have seen him win Top Gun with a 1/5 F-104. He later updated to a 1/4 scale one!
Your receiver came with either SPM9645 (antenna out one side) or SPM9745 (antenna out both sides) remotes. They both support the older RRP protocol, so the 36" limit is more important to follow (but still conservative).
Putting connectors in is not a problem. I would use standard servo extensions. At one point we actually sold a servo-to-remote receiver adapter cable set for exactly this purpose. I bought a few, and probably still have some hanging on my parts wall but there's no way I can find them without re-organizing the whole mess at this point.
Talk to Pete. He'll have first hand experience with very similar jets.
Andy
You really need to reach out to Pete Goldsmith, owner of Peter Goldsmith Designs https://www.petergoldsmithdesigns.com/ and tell him I sent you. I'm sure a photo of your F-100 will get him interested even more. Tell him what brand finish you used - different brands have different metal content that might affect the operation more or less. He can also tell you where he has the remotes in his - you may have seen him win Top Gun with a 1/5 F-104. He later updated to a 1/4 scale one!
Your receiver came with either SPM9645 (antenna out one side) or SPM9745 (antenna out both sides) remotes. They both support the older RRP protocol, so the 36" limit is more important to follow (but still conservative).
Putting connectors in is not a problem. I would use standard servo extensions. At one point we actually sold a servo-to-remote receiver adapter cable set for exactly this purpose. I bought a few, and probably still have some hanging on my parts wall but there's no way I can find them without re-organizing the whole mess at this point.
Talk to Pete. He'll have first hand experience with very similar jets.
Andy
