Ross Kean

AMC and others

I originally posted this message to the Yahoo Futaba 9C forum and with subsequent reading discovered that the group is essentially disfunctional with a bunch of dissatisfied people doing their best to degrade each other! Not everyone, but enough to become really frustrating. I'll try for some answers and opinions here - seems to be much friendlier...

EDIT ... Just noticed that AMC has a new moderated group (futabaowners) on Yahoo. GREAT!! I'll repost to that one only if I need more info than I get from here.

I am still doing some research to determine which radio I should
buy. The Futaba 9C and the Hitec Eclipse 7 are my primary choices at this time. I am not suggesting that these two radios are equivalent but each seem to have some major good points. I would appreciate it if I could get some information. By the way, I didn't get much useful info from the Futaba email support - they are very much into automated or stock responses that may or may not address the specific questions. I have gone through most of their FAQ, much of the Yahoo Futaba 9C forum as well as some reading on some other RC forums.

1) The Hitec radio seems to have two advantages that would be of significant interest to me. a) It is shift-selectable which means I
can use some Airtronics gear I currently have. b) The "Spectra"
frequency synthesizer module means I wouldn't have to purchase
additional Tx modules to "talk" to other compatable receivers I own which may be on different frequencies.

Does anyone know if there is there any sort of schedule for possible release of a frequency synthesizer module for the 9C? The website FAQ merely suggests that it is an item for possible future consideration.

Is shift selectability a possible option? Don't know whether this
would be a software issue, hardware in the box or hardware in the module - would be of major interest. I read a posting where someone added a digital inverter to their Tx with a switch - don't want to even think about that!

2) Is there a reasonable software upgrade path for this radio? I
have read the (Yahoo) Group's comments on some of the software issues ranging from bugs and programming to display issues. I am not suggesting that major flaws exist, but it would be nice if new features could be incorporated into an existing radio. Flash-programmability (like many computer BIOS) would be a great idea!

3) There have been a number of threads (on the Yahoo forum)relating to the on-line availability of the manual (PDF). From what I saw in these threads, the target for online availability was January (now June). Hitec has theirs available on their website and it has been a useful resource for evaluation of their system. Any news on this from Futaba?

4) Futaba advantages would seem to include extra channels, PCM
capability, better display, better ergonomics and better programming flexibility. Also, overall better quality/reputation???

5) Finally, at the end of this long post, I would invite comments
from those who have some experience with the 9C and the Eclipse. Looking for general impressions, advantages, comparisons, disadvantages etc. BTW, my personal impressions (based upon lots of reading) is that the 9C is the best choice for me but I am unqualified to make this a statement of fact since I have no direct experience with either radio.

Thanks in advance

Ross

Dazzler

My Feedback: (6)

9C, all the way. I've flown with both, personally after flying a freinds plane with the eclipse, I would never buy the Eclipse, its cheap feeling. I like all my other Hitec stuff, servos and Rx's. But the 9CA is a clear winner. No it doesnt have shift selection, but I didnt need that feature. Get the 9CA and you wont regret it, or go to your LHS, and play with each one, I'm sure you will see how the 9CA is better. Good luck, Daz...

MHawker

My Feedback: (16)

I don't know the price difference, but if this "shift selectability" is the important point to you, then the Hitec is your choice.

I have only flown a Laser 4 (my first radio) and my current 9C. Like Daz said, the 9C has a much better "feel" to me. It was also very intuitive to program (especially important as this was my first computer radio).

The programming issues you speak of (as far as I've read) have been confirmed by Ann Marie, but it only affects some deal with glider V-tail mixing.

Do you fly gliders? If not, then I wouldn't worry about it and I wouldn't make any connection to possible other problems. Mine has worked fine.

Mike

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

I didn't see this answered but the synthesizer module for the 8U will work in the 9C

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

Having owned both the 9C and the Eclipse, I feel that I'm at least semi-qualified to answer some of the questions. You've pretty much answered a lot of your own questions. You just need to list out your priorities and see which radio fits your needs best.

1. Radio compatibility - if you have a large inventory of mixed brand receivers, the Eclipse might be a better choice. If you're starting relatively fresh, shift compatibility will be much less an issue as you can easily stick to one type.

2. Channel surfing - the Spectra is a the biggest seller for Hitec. Regardless of one's reason for channel hopping, having that option is a major plus. Hitec has an Ace; Futaba has a self-imposed handicap. I will say this: functionally, the Spectra is compatible with the 9C; legally, you're on your own.

3. Programming ease - 9C wins. Period.

4. # of channels - 7 vs. 8 may not seem like a big deal, but in some cases one channel short can be a real hassle. Example: I have several of my planes set up with quad flaps. Add throttle, elevator and rudder and you've maxed out the Eclipse. You won't have the extra channel to do mixes like dual elevator or on-board glow.

5. TX mode selectability - this is the reason I sold my Eclipse. I fly Mode 3, probably one of a handful in the US that fly this odd mode. I checked with Hitec and they can reconfigure the radio for me, but I finally decide not to go through with the surgery and sold the Eclipse TX unadulterated.

6. Firmware upgrade - well, both Hitec and Futaba suck at this. They offer none. Whatever their excuses are, they just need to drag their sorry knuckles into the 21st Century and get with the programmer... uh I mean, program. Sorry, couldn't resist a little geek joke.

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

Hi again! Happy to help....
want to be sure i don't mis anything along the way, so here goes.


1) Shift and channel selectability...sorry, no, there is no formal announce program for either of these for hte 9C.


2) Software -- these are not upgradable firmware chips. That said, however, any time a processor change is made due to an issue such as the glider programming glitch in the 9C, whenever radios are sent in for service for any reason such an upgrade is performed for the user at no charge.

PS: the glider issue is this: If you fly 4-wing servo vtail gliders AND use butterfly AND use the elevator compensation within butterfly, there is a problem with the elevator compensation. A single mix can resolve it immediately.

For any modelers who do use this combination of features, a small quantity of new chips are in our service facility to change these chips for those users immediately.

In the future the radios will ship with the new processors already installed and radios sent for service will get this update automatically.

3) Sorry...no progress on the PDF of the manual. The 9C region of the website is under redesign and until that is completed the PDF will not be generated.

4) Sounds like you hit the biggies! :-))

5) Hope you go with the 9C. I truly believe you won't be sorry!

dant-RCU

My Feedback: (3)

I would like to add to volfy's list. I own both a 9C and an Eclipse with Spectra. The Eclipse is now my electrics-only radio and also my backup radio. It is also availalbe to other members when we go to contests/fly-ins in case they have a problem.

My additions:

Digital Trim Displays:
9C wins as they are always available to view whereas on the Eclipse you have to enter the menu, go to trims then select and MOVE the trim switch to see the percentage. May not be a biggie for most but it bothers me.

Throttle Cut Switch:
9C wins. The throttle cut button on the Eclipse is next to the throttle lock button. You have to feel for the throttle cut and hope you don't hit the throttle lock. On the 9C you can assign the throttle cut to ANY switch - I use the spring-loaded trainer switch.

Switch assignments:
9C wins as you can assign any function (5-9) to any switch.

Dan

Dazzler

My Feedback: (6)

Dant, I too use my trainer switch as my throttle cut, that way I dont have to keep resetting it for the next engine start, it always goes back to non throttle cut, after you cut the throttle. Works great!!! Daz...

Ross Kean

To AnnMarie and everyone else who responded to my post:
Thanks for the answers and input. I will hopefully make the right choice on the basis of information obtained from these and other sources. Lots of good information and opinions out there and I really appreciate the help. Sometimes a bit difficult to separate the "real" from the "imagined", but I'm much further ahead than I was a few days ago.

Ross

hawkpilot

My Feedback: (7)

I give the 9c a vote....I love mine....very easy to use.

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

2) Software -- these are not upgradable firmware chips. That said, however, any time a processor change is made due to an issue such as the glider programming glitch in the 9C, whenever radios are sent in for service for any reason such an upgrade is performed for the user at no charge.

PS: the glider issue is this: If you fly 4-wing servo vtail gliders AND use butterfly AND use the elevator compensation within butterfly, there is a problem with the elevator compensation. A single mix can resolve it immediately.

For any modelers who do use this combination of features, a small quantity of new chips are in our service facility to change these chips for those users immediately.

In the future the radios will ship with the new processors already installed and radios sent for service will get this update automatically.

****UPDATE***All radios received in the US after 6/30/02 have the updated processor. So we currently have mixed stock, as some frequencies have sold out and some have not. an easy way to know for sure -- the new batches also have a longer dial on them for VRs A, B, and C.

AtomHeartMother

Hi Ross,

I read a short while back also the Eclipse 7 has it's own issues with programming glitches. Seems that if you want to use crow or "butterfly" functions on an airplane with an engine..you're out of luck. It only allows crow function in the sailplane mode...or whatever hitech calls it. The throttle channel is disabled when crow is used ! This was confirmed by a hitech rep., and he stated that no decisions have been made about a possible fix. In Hitech's defense, they never claimed to be able to use crow in the airplane mode..just something that was overlooked.
A bummer for all those unsuspecting Ultra Stick owners. I'd not buy the hitech for that reason alone. But hey, I'm an Airtronics guy. The 9C is simply a superior radio IMHO.

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I am going out on a limb here, but I like my Eclipse. People say that the programming is hard, but you just need to use it. I have to admit that I was hunting around at first, but then after a month of using it, I had no problem at all. It's like any radio when you first use it, its hard to understand. It is not as visual as the 9C, but I don't need that. If you need pictures, then the 9C is for you I fly 5 different planes and two helis with my Eclipse. It has always worked fine with no problems. And the spectra module is pretty cool as well. If someone has a radio problem at your field, simply find an open memory location, and start programming.

As far as the PCM capability, by the end of the year Hitec is releasing the FM/PCM version and all existing Eclipses can be sent back in the PCM added for less than $25 I was quoted the other day.

rcflier_gi

My Feedback: (2)

I sold my Eclipse to purchase the 9C. The Eclipse is a very good transmitter. But a couple things made me sell it to get the 9C.

1). Limited mixes (could not fully setup my Ultra Stick).
2). Mixes and rates are fixed to specific switches, switches can not be assigned.

If mixing is not key to you the Eclipse will make a great radio.

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

Just to make a clarification: you can program the Eclispe do CROW/Airbrake in ACRO mode. It's just not as eaily done as in glider mode, plus some of the trims don't work 100% right when CROW is activated. I "faked" it with mine using two switches and three(?) Pmixes, if I remember correctly.

That said, if a quad flap plane is a potential candidate for your fleet, the 9C makes for a much better programming and versatile radio.

rcflier_gi

My Feedback: (2)

I could get the crow to work with my Eclipse in the "acro" mode. Same as Volfy though I had to hit two switches to activate it. My flaps were on the landing gear channel and switch and the ailerons were set as up flaperons. Things would have been simple if you could use the "glid" mode but in that mode the throttle is disabled. But I couldn't get one of the other mixes to work right. I can't remember if it was elevator / flaps or ailerons / flaps.

rajul

My Feedback: (58)

Hi Ann, could you kindly provide some details on how to program this mix to resolve the glitch temporarily. If it can be done easily without causing any other "side effects" to my glider performance, then I guess I can still survive without the processor upgrade. Thanks......

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

Rajul,
simply do a channel 2 to channel 4 mix of +100% so that the rudder servo moves twice as far as it already is, assigned to the same switch as airbrake. that's it.

rajul

My Feedback: (58)

Hi AM, tried and doesn't seem to work. Can you provide actual settings to use in the mix ? Thanks again............

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

Raj,

turn this mix off.
go to servo screen.
give airbrake inputs.
which servo moves twice as far as the other?

rajul

My Feedback: (58)

Hi AM, Hope that you can walk this thru with me. OK, elevator (ch 2) travels twice the distance of rudder (ch 4)........

GaryB-RCU

My Feedback: (3)

...i own an Eclipse Spectra and a Futaba 9C - i fly on average 3-5 times a week - i haven't used my Elipse for 3 months - i use my 9c 3-5 times a week...

...if i could have seen the screen display before purchasing, i would never have laid out the bucks for an Elcipse - having to scroll to a separate screen for model name and trim settings is unacceptable, IMO, for a high-end radio wannabe...not to mention, no offset on flaperons, etc., etc., etc...

...Hitec should copy the 9C software - it would make the Eclipse much more competitive with the 9C...

GaryB-RCU

My Feedback: (3)

...ps - i don't think any honest person who held both an Eclipse and a 9C in their hands could objectively rate the Eclipse as better quality - there's a noticeable difference - if you want to hear how much better Hitec is and get really misled, just go the the Ezone discussion forums for electric flight - they think Hitec is No. 1...

...and it's basically because of the Hitec 555 dual conversion receiver that they like for electrics (and the low price, i suppose) - i fly a Flash 5 and the 555's in my electrics and haven't had too many interference problems (the Hitec Feather is junk) - i remain puzzled why Futaba doesn't make a 5 channel, dual conversion FM receiver similar in size and weight to the 555 - not enough market for the micro receivers???...

ksflyer-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I would have to disagree. I have flown both and I like the Eclipse. I did not like the feel of my 6XAS and the 9C is not much different. I know the programming is so much easier, but I guess if you need pictures than it's for you. I have no problem programming the Eclipse whether it be planes or heli's.

I am not a glider flier but I do use the Elevon setups quite often for my Pizza Boxes and it is easy to setup.

If you hate that Eclipse so much, how much would you sell it for?

I have seen to many guys in my clubs crashing planes do to Futaba radio Failures to change from Hitec.

Dazzler

My Feedback: (6)

I also have flown both, and the Eclipse cant touch the 9C radio. The elipse trims are very sloppy, as if they are going to fall off, and a very cheap feel to it. The 9C is far superior, PERIOD.

Daz...