supertiger

Im considering buying this reciever system for my 1/4 patty wagstaff extra 300, i wondering what other people think about this system, with all the money i will have tied up in this airplane i am hopping it can posibley save my investment in the event of a loss of signal or some other mishap. im not sold on this but the advertizing shure sounds good. what do you guys think about it?

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

If you need a co-pilot, you do not need to be flying the PW extra from GP.
YOu need more practice.

jtholley03

My Feedback: (4)

Supertiger said nothing about his flying ability. He could be an expert pilot. Don't attack him with a dumb comment when he is asking a legit question.

Now for some facts:
There are UAV companies that have developed GPS enabled BU systems for piloted planes. A pilot could have a heart attack and the plane can land itself back at the original airport by itself.

Pro Hang glider pilots have a rocket propelled safety parachute. Above or below a certain altitude if the safety button is released by the pilot it activates.

Now we are starting to see safety systems trickle down to RC.

Why not use a back up system? Imagine when you lose your signal or a crystal goes bad. It would be nice to have a back up plan. Something to give you half a second to think.

I have been looking at this and it's computer analysis part. Would be nice after each flight to plug in the laptop and see if anything happened up there that might be an early warning indicator. Imagine that last windy day you went flying. Was that a hit or a wind gust? Now we could answer that as soon as we land and not have to wonder about it for the rest of the day.

One problem that has been holding me back is that we have guys that fly the cheap FMA Rx's at our field. They get hits in one certain area of the field. This bothers me about the FMA Rx's. I am very curious about the new Transmitter Signature Recognition technology. I hope their Rx is up to snuff as they report. Berg also has a TSR Rx and I am very fond of Berg's Rx's.

Pulled from FMA's CoPilot White Paper:
Before the flight At the field, perform preflight checks: 1. With your transmitter off, turn on the Flight System Receiver to determine whether interference is present (the receiver detects both on-channel and off-channel interference). If there is no interference, proceed. 2. Turn on your transmitter. The receiver measures and stores your transmitterÃ-s unique signature. 3. While moving the transmitter sticks (which applies a load to the receiver battery), press the receiverÃ-s button one time, then read the battery voltage on the LED (1 long blink = 1 volt, 1 short blink = 0.1 volt). 4. Test failsafe operation: turn off the transmitter. Servos with failsafe presets should move to those positions. Other servos should hold steady. 5. Perform a range check as described in the Receiver user guide, but keep your transmitter on. When you return to the plane, observe the receiver's LED: If the LED is blinking, the receiver entered Failsafe Mode during the test. This is a critical situationÃ3find and correct the problem before proceeding. Press the receiver's button three times, and read (on the LED) the number of bad frames that occurred during the test (1 long blink = 10 bad frames, 1 short blink = 1 bad frame). A few bad frames is common.

Now take out the FMA specific stuff and tell me ANYONE that you have seen at your field or any other that does a thorough preflight check like this before each flight let alone once a day or year. I don't know anyone at fields around me. I know of one guy who is dead opposite. Pulls up to the field, pulls his stuff out as quickly as possible. Fuels up quicker than a NASCAR team. Starts the engine and takes off. Flies his somewhat controlled flight - might muster up enough to do one or two rolls. Completes the flight, runs back to the line fuels as fast as he can and takes right back off.

Now I am with Supertiger. We have a lot of money in any given plane. Why not have some checks and measures to help take out human error. Imagine those times we have lost our plane to pilot error. Now think how much a system like this would have save in money, time, danger, and embarrassment!

Go to FMA's website and to the support link and download the white paper:

https://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1110.pdf

Now they did some interesting tests.

I like the fact that the system when turned on without Tx power checks for interference. My Tx (a Multiplex Profi 4000) does the same thing. If the Tx senses activity on it's channel it won't go into flight mode. If all manufacturers would implement this simple circuit into Tx's we would never have any accidental turn ons and people getting screwed by losing models to someone elses ignorance!

Supertiger - do a search on copilot here on RCU. A lot of feedback.

I will be purchasing one of these FMA systems and will report on it once I get to test it out.

Now the last I have NO connection to Berg or FMA. I haven't even used a FMA product.

ml3456

I was all exicited about the new co-pilot for my heli I am trying to learn on when I discovered I needed their rx. I have a pcm rx in it now, and I would have to go back to fm/ppm. It would work, but like gas planes, pcm is safer in any creature possible generating a lot of interference. That said, iIalso don't need another rx. May look for the old FMA co-pilot.

ML

supertiger

There is one more thing that bothers me and that is that the imferred sensor is supost to be located usually on bottom of the plane so the sensor can see forward. left, right and backwards, but on the extra 300, the forward sensor will be looking threw the dounward pointed exahust from the inverted gas engine, and FMA told me the sensors need to be protected from looking threw exhaust gasses, you cant mount it on top of the plane, say in front of the canopy because the rearward sensor needs to have a clear line of sight going backwards and the conopy will block that. anyway im shure with some modifications it can be used.
There is also one other concern and that is if the copilot aids your flying to much then it might make you over time become a worse pilot , if you always have some help leveling your wings and corecting crosswind flying problems, its possible over time that you will forget how to fly naturally in the event that you dont have the copilot on all your planes but im not rillly worried about this i would love to know there is a raio problem before i take off with an expensive airplane.

jtholley03

My Feedback: (4)

PCM is not necessarily "safer". In fact if there are problems PCM can actually mask them until they become bigger problems. PCM is also slower. Anyway that has been discussed greatly in the radio section. I run FM since Multiplex chose not to continue with PCM. Therefore I have no problem buying into the whole FMA system.

Supertiger - good point about the IR sensor mounting, I was wondering about that. I would run into the same problem in my Lanier Extra 300S exhaust goes out downward pitts muffler. OMP Edge and Pizzaz and Pitts S12 profile I have would be fine. Let me know what you come up with as far as a solution. I wonder how the prop IR signature is filtered out by Copilot. Is the vertical sensor IR also?

Heres a big ? What happens when the Copilot screws up?

As far as relying on it too much you can dial it up or down and turn it off. I don't really care to use it all the time just as a bu. So I would wire it to a panic switch or button to turn on if necessary.

Rodney

JTHOLLY53, what cheap reciever are you refering to? FMA makes some inexpensive but no cheap receivers. All tests I have done with the FM5A and other FMA receivers show that they are equal to or superior to Futaba, HiTec and Airtronics in range, sensitivity and selectivity. I have never used the CoPilot so can not comment on it but, Fred Marks's reputation tells me it is also a very good product.

jtholley03

My Feedback: (4)

Seen 2 different instances. M5 sub micro. At our field and at an indoor meet.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I am 77 years old and still like to fly. But with catarects developing (All you young guys take note - wear sunglasses when you fly - Dont end up like me) I need some help somtimes. I tend to lose orientation at times. I have installed the co-pilot on my favorite airplane so that if I get confused I just turn it on and let it fly the airplane until I regain the orientation. It also is quite helpful on windy days for landing.
I plan to install a PCM receiver and let it turn on the co-pilot from the fail safe. I should be able to just turn the radio off and watch it fly. I will program in a little rudder to make it circle. This system will be the same as the new receiver system they have.

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

i think the sensing unit can also be turned 45 deg and problem solved. i'm also thinking that the sensor brick could be taken apart and the individual sensors mounted inside the plane with nothing more than a tiny hole for each one to see through. maybe one in each wingtip, one in the leading edge and one in the trailing edge? i've read an article where they did something like this with a co-pilot in a model rocket.


dave

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Lets not start again, but who said PCM is better with gassers... Don't tell that to my radio because I'm only flying gassers and I don't use PCM.

I just purchased the co-pilot for safety reasons also and will be using it shortly

Roger

supertiger

Zagnut, that is good new, about turning it 45degrees. reading your post was like i was thinking out loud. even the part about taking it apart and placeing the individual sensors around the plane.