Dr.Tim

My Feedback: (1)

Has anyone programmed one of these for CCPM helicopters and if so would you help me!

Dr.Tim

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

There's a few of us here who know the 3030 quite well, though it might be hard to find one who knows about it in helis. If no heli user comes forward we will be glad to help as best we can. Otherwise see page 63 of the manual for setting up the HEAD-MIX program, but crucially it is modified by page 3 of the ver 3.0 software supplement which deals with the variable GEOMETRY and PHASE elements in the re-written HEAD-MIX program. The supplement also includes details of the new TAIL ROTOR mixer for offsets during auto-rotations. I assume that your 3030 has ver3.0 software and that you have the supplement to the main manual?

Are you aware that unless you use Mpx servos fitted with Mpx plugs, you need to consider altering the centre and travel for all servos because of the Mpx non-standard timing signal?

For details of this and a good 3rd party programming guide whcih you can download free, though admittedly with no heli info, see http://www.rc-soar.com/index.html

Harry

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Harry, please be my guess, I have flown all my helicopters with the Multiplex 3030 but not with the CCPM.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Oh no, over to you Roger, I didn't know you fly helis! I know nothing about them.

Harry

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Yes indeed I did from 1996 to 2001. I was doing aerial photography.
http://www.geocities.com/roger_forgues/carrier.html

I simply never programed the 3030 in CCPM.

GMPheli

Harry:
The way you always talk about Multiplex being so superior and easy to use I didn't think anyone would ever have any questions. On my Jap radio to use CCPM all I do is turn it on! <G>. Please take this in the light hearted spirit that it was written. I just see you constantly tooting Multiplex's horn and had to say something. In a thread a while back about the Airtronics Stylus you aked why anyone would want a radio that had preprogramming in it. Maybe this is why.

Alan (only joshing you) Angus

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Point taken Alan! I have no heli experience and was aware that although Mpx has heli functions, they require some setting by the user. I don't think helis figure so highly in Germany as gliders and electric models do, so Mpx main focus is in that direction. Like all Mpx, you are given greater freedom than the Japanese sets give, but the disadvantage is that you have to do some work to set it up. Mpx are not switch on and go radios. When the heli makers bring out some great new idea for the head or whatever, Futaba/JR have to bring out a new radio to cope with it, and it contains a ready to use program to deal with it. But you have to buy the new radio. Mpx says hey, we gave you a totally programmable radio that can cope with new ideas, just go and reprogram it yourself, don't buy a new radio. But in this era of ARTFs, ready made meals and so on, many people would rather pay to have it done for them, than spend the time programming their existing radio, especially as heli programming can be complex.

Harry

kenghock

Hi Harry and Roger

I've just about to start in RC and decided on indoor micro helis in space constrained Singapore. My Christmas present to myself
- MS Composit Hornet CP with all the mods.
- Royal Evo 9 "International" for my "avionics".

Was swayed to the RE 9 by Harry's posts and my preference for flexibility.

I'm asking this question in ignorance and its addressed to Roger. If the Tx is programable and is done off a PC, is it possible to get a copy of your heli setup. It might help in building a generic CCPM template.

I'm currently in the knowledge accquisition and hobby preparation phase. The lack of info on the web on setting up a Multiplex Tx for heli's was my principle concern in selecting this make. Still I thought it would be a good challenge as I like to tinker.

Thanks to Dr Tim for raising this and a note that we've not yet answered the spirit of his question.

Thanks all

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

I would like to point out that the Mpx Tx do contain already made CCPM programs, normal head and HEIM head programs, tail rotor programs, throttle compensation programs, gyro programs etc. I have no idea what these do but heli enthusiasts will understand

Harry

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Well to answer your question at least partly, the chief programmer of the Multiplex line is deffinately Harry C (I wonder what C stands for)
I have never programmed my 3030 in the CCPM mode, and I don't have anything on my PC.
For that matter, I don't fly helis anymore since last year and I don't have the 3030 anymore either.

But now that you bring this up, I should have the software for the PC and the cord attachement. Would you be able to help me Harry C in this venue.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

What is it you want to do Roger? Kenghock has/is getting the RE. You will need to have an RE programmed for a CCPM head, and backup that memory to PC in order to email it to him. Has the RE arrived in Canada now?

Back to Dr Tim's original question, I think he got a prog emailed from someone in the Profi newsgroup, if not please do ask any questions and I will try to help, I still have my 3030 and manuals.

Harry

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Harry, I think there might be a bit of confusion here. I don't want to do anything. The RE is not here and won't be for quite a while yet.
This is why I steered him towards you. I thought he was going to purchase the 3030, I guess I misread.

Roger

Dr.Tim

My Feedback: (1)

Yes Harry, I did receive a Program list from the Profi users group! Thank you and all that Contributed! I have set up this radio with these IPD 9ch Receivers and 8 servos on my bench. I have been PLAYING to see what does what and come to realize that this radio does everything plus!!
I think the most difficult thing I have to overcome is this radio programs at the servo level were I am used to programming at the Function level. Once I started to PLAY it became obvious to me that this is not as hard as I once thought! Well, Back to Playing! Thanks All and MERRY CHRISTMAS!! May GOD BLESS YOU ALL!

DR.TIM

Dr.Tim

My Feedback: (1)

Also Harry the Recievers sold here in the States are programmed at 1.5 not the usual 1.6 so that any servo used with the MultiPlex Radio will have the Same Center! Pretty Cool Stuff -- Sounds like MPX is doing there best to be versital.

Dr.Tim

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Oh no they're not! As far as the servo data signal is concerned, the Rx is transparent, the signal from the Tx merely passes straight through it. Unless the Mpx USA importer has dissasembled and rebuilt the Tx to the Japanese standard signal, your 3030 is generating Mpx servo timings and the servos will respond to that. Mpx gets around it because their servos, not the Rx, are designed to expect the Mpx signal. I have a feeling that Mpx USA does not import the Mpx servos and Rx with true Mpx plugs and sockets. Mpx makes Mpx plugged servos and Rx, and also uni plugged servos and Rx. Over here we can buy both versions. Mpx servos that are fitted with uni plugs are retimed to the Japanese standard so that they can be used with Japanese radios. What you need to do is get a Japanese Tx on the same frequency, use it with whatever Rx and servo you use for your 3030 and note the servo's centre and max travel using the Japanese Tx. Then try it with the 3030. I guarantee you will see the servo goes off centre and travels far further. You risk hitting the mechanical limits. A JR Tx at 100% generates a timing signal of 1.1 - 1.9ms and the Mpx signal will drive a Japanese servo or an Mpx servo fitted with uni plug way past it's normal 100% travel, very close to its end stop which on JR is just above 150%, i.e 0.9ms and 2.1ms. Your unmodified 3030 is reaching 2.15ms when at 100%, and is capable of being set to much higher % values than that.

Harry

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Your absolutely right Harry,
Multiplex USA imports only the Uni plug servo and rx and they are 100% compatible with the rest of the world.
But the 3030 did not have the possibility to TX with 1-1.5-2, so to bypass this, I would go to the individual servo center and move it about 9%, I don't quite remember.
With the 4000 it is program selectable.
When I order direct from Germany, they allways send me the Uni plug units.

Dr.Tim

My Feedback: (1)

Well, So far I have been playing with this on my bench for about 2 hours. Trying different Servos, and Receivers -- So far they center the same -- I would center them with my JR, Then turn off the Jr and turn on the 3030 -- The Same!! Nothing moved from the marked position,Then I would wiggle the sticks and servos and let them go back to center. Nothing has changed from center on the JR to the center point of the Multiplex. Is there a Design change in the 3.0 upgrade to the software for the USA? Or do these new IPD Receivers just work the same as the Jap counterpart? I Understand that all the Receivers shipped to Multiplex here in the states are compatible with the Jap stuff. With all this said and having a Ph.D in Physics -- I could be wrong!

Dr.Tim
I wish the Learning Curve was as easy as a Pitch Curve!

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

The Rx is a red herring! It has Futaba/JR sockets to accept those servos but it does nothing to modify the signal. It physically can not modify the signal, for how can it know what to do? 1.6ms is a valid signal which you may be fully intending to send. The Rx can not know that you mean to send 1.5ms or 1.6ms. The same is true of adjusting the end points. No matter what brand of Tx you use, 2.1ms is a valid signal and the Rx can not know if you intended to send 2.1ms or 1.9ms. The Rx does not know if you have a Japanese Tx at 150% or an Mpx Tx at 95%. So the Rx is transparent to the servo signal and it passes through unmodified. The only processing done by the IPD is when the signal exceeds something like 0.7 or 2.3ms which it interprets as interference. Incidentally, the 3030 is capable of exceeding those signals in certain circumstances and generating a valid signal which fools the IPD into failsafe! Mpx had to put out a tech bulletin on it after the IPD went on sale and too late they discovered their error.

If your servos are centring and moving exactly the same with a Jap Tx and the Mpx Tx then the most likely reason is that the centres and travels values have been modified in that memory. The ver 3 software does not allow a switch to what mpx calls "uni" timing. Now there are three places where those values could have been altered. They could have been set in the servos menu, or they could have been set in the controls menu. I will wager that one of those two menus has the modified values of minus9% centre and 72% travel. The third possibility is that the servo mix limit (path=menu1, servo, limit) has been set to 72%, but the centre would still need to have been modified in either servos or controls.
I suppose it is possible that someone somewhere modified the signal generation in your Tx to permanent uni timing but that is a very low probability.

Mpx did not acknowledge the need to allow for uni timing until it brought out the 4000 a few years after the 3030. The 4000 has a software switch but even then it adjusts only the centre to 1.5ms, it still leaves the travel at Mpx standard of 0.55ms each side of centre, so 4000 users still need to modify servo travel to 72%. The 4000's uni switch works on 0.95 - 2.05ms with centre at 1.5ms. Japanese work on 0.4ms each side of neutral (not 0.5ms as is commonly believed), hence the need for servo travel to be adjusted to 0.4/0.55 or 72.7%, and this is confirmed by doing experiments with servos. I think the Cockpit has true uni timing, the Royal Evo claims to have true uni timing.

Pages 34 and 35 of the 3030 manual, unmodified by the ver3 supplement, tell you that centres and travels have to be adjusted for non-Mpx servos.

Harry

Dr.Tim

My Feedback: (1)

Wow Harry !! I checked the menues were you stated that they were probably set to -9% Centre and 72% travel !! You were Correct!!!!
I received this radio used and am learning all the way!! You have been more than helpful ! Thank You for your Time and Effort in this matter. I think I'm just about ready to try this in my helicopter! Feeling a bit more Comfortable.

Dr.Tim

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Dr. T, you're welcome! Do ensure that the adjustments to centre and travel to compensate for timing are made in the servos menu and not in the controls menu. I did a lot of testing of this when I first got a 3030, and now I can't remember the exact reasons why but I reached the conclusion that doing it controls would sometimes lead to unintended consequences.

I judge from what you say that you are attempting to use a model already defined by the previous owner, rather than start from scratch in a blank memory? I would advise against doing this. The 3030 has so many programming possibilities that he may have set up some parameter or switch that you will not notice in the program, but which pops up and takes effect just when you least need it and have no idea what is going on. It is always safest to create your own programs from scratch. The 3030 comes with a variety of models already created. If the previous owner has left a model called BK117 in memory 15 then copy that to an empty memory, rename it, and tweak the values as as required. See p29 of the manual.

Harry

Dr.Tim

My Feedback: (1)

Harry, I checked to see were the adjustments were made. I am taking your advice and copying a Blank model to No. 1 Spot then start from scratch. I have a pretty good idea how things work now and feel comfortable thanks to you. Looking forward to competing with this radio, It's funny that as you get more into the flying of Scale helicopters, The more you require from your Radio! It seems that only radio's such as the Profi 3030, 4000, MC24 and so fourth give you that flexability and performance required! What a Blast!! I am really starting to enjoy this Radio and for the life of me don't know why I didn't do this a long time ago! I have been flying RC since 1968!! Thanks again
Here is a Shot of one of my scalers! This one is a Vario Dauphin. (Thats that crappy Futaba radio sitting there)

Dr.Tim

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

That's a beautiful model Dr T, and welcome to the Multiplex collective (pardon the pun for the heli flier!)

Harry

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Resistance is Futile, you will assimilate